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  1.  (6236.41)
    Saw the pool reveal, got the little "whoa" moment, but I wasn't too fazed.

    ...Then I saw the bloody claw marks trying to get up the ramp.

    Jesus, Paul, you outdo yourself weekly.
    • CommentAuthorfrexels
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    What the fuck, Kait?! I'm really, really hoping her worry is from guilt rather than worry that the others are going to punish her. Because I felt kind of ill looking at the last panel; Arkady and KK had me expecting some sort of whacky hijinx. Not the Whitechapel Gitmo.

    Now we've got the problem. If Kait just hijacked her prisoners' brains, went through them, and found out everything she needed to know, she wouldn't need the swimming pool of death. Unless this is some sort of punishment instead of interrogation, but I was kind of hoping that the public knew what's done to criminals, they don't just disappear. So, if the angels allowed Kait to quietly dig up some confessions, info to keep the public safe, and cover her tracks afterward, they'd be breaking their own rule, but sparing some physical pain/psychological torture. Would it have been better if she'd done a massive privacy invasion?

    Kait vs Luke, battle to the death.

    Last thing, anyone else worried about how Luke breaking the Big Rule wasn't a crime to her?
  2.  (6236.43)
    Page 6, of course. It's not just the specifics of it. You know; the blood, the chains? It's the atmosphere of the whole thing. How did you make that image, Paul? I've got ideas, but for a simple square pool it is definitely one of the most complex images you've rendered...

    Well, I think I'm going to have to vacate Oregon if a job does not appear within the next 3 weeks. Which is too bad for me, of course. This place has a lot of creative types and is just a great community. *sigh* If I have to leave I will be very, very sad. :(
    • CommentAuthorEbony14
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    Excellent reveal. Can't say I'm terribly surprised, and you know that neither Kait or Sirkka think that they're doing anything wrong.

    Something did occur to me: Kait can resurrect the dead, although those with massive tissue trauma clearly give her difficulty. What's the tricky bit about torture? Keeping the subject alive while you work him or her over.

    Any bets on Kait's tactics for information retrieval?
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    Of course Kait has her a Wilkinson Sword Dartmoor Survival Knife.

    I won't call her bonkers until we find out she's really kept people there.
  3.  (6236.46)
    Excellent episode.

    At this point though, part of me thinks the Big Reveal will be that the Freakangels are really the villains in the whole drama.
  4.  (6236.47)
    I registered just now so I could say how impressed I am with Paul's art this episode. Some of those angles absolutely blow me away (Sirrka's cleavage shot on page 2 especially, and Alice in particular in the bottom panel on page 3). The pool of torture on page 6 is an awesome image, and the water effects are a great touch. Very reminiscent of Silent Hill, I love it.

    Much thanks to Paul and Warren for bringing us another excellent Freakangel Friday.
    • CommentAuthorWinther
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    I read this episode on my brand spanking new 23" Samsung widescreen. Finally got rid of the old 21" CRT monster that took up most of my desk, and was nearly heavy enough to throw the Earth out of its orbit. This new one... it's wide. My gawd, it's wide. I know it's this whole "It's actually 16:9, as opposed to 16:10" thing, but... wow. It's... really wide. Takes some getting used to.
    The screen is the first step in giving my computer a gigantic encouraging kick in the ass. I get the last of the parts tomorrow. Basically everything but the DVD and hard drive gets changed. Which is nice, because I basically haven't been able to play any new computer games (barring the usually more technically forgiving indie titles) for going on a year now.

    Well, until now, the 'Angels have said that Kait's the really crazy one, but we hadn't really seen anything to prove it. Sure, she was... driven... but nothing really put her off the scales. Then this. You know, somehow her childish attitude about their reaction wigs me out even more than the actual... place. "But you promised you wouldn't freak!" That's what you say to your parents after they yell at you for denting their car, not when you've constructed a fucking mini-Gitmo. It's not shame, it's not even a justification or rationalization, it's annoyance that she just knew they were going to react this way, and it's totally unfair. And that attitude scares me in a person with many guns and chains at the bottom of empty swimming pools.

    And Sirkka's actions would be less creepy for me if it didn't seem to be so obviously for their own benefit, to keep a low profile, instead of an honest, if heavy-handed, attempt to try and help a victim of a horrible crime. Bullshit indeed.

    Shades of grey. But getting darker.
    • CommentAuthorNebish
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    Nothing good can possibly come out of that swimming pool. This is going to get really ugly.

    Can't wait.
    • CommentAuthorpi8you
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    Is it bad that the first thing that came to mind with page 6 was the dog pit in Snatch? Do they really shape pools like that over there?

    @Winther - Hooray for huge widescreen monitors :D
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    I don't think it's a pool. It's got a door on the bottom, rails around the top that appear to be just as old as the rest of the building, and it appears to ramp up to level ground. I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's a pool.
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    something zooey?
  5.  (6236.53)
    hmm... where to begin? For starters, excellent work gentlemen, thank you.

    I can't say I'm suprised that "justice" in this setting is heavy handed at best. In a "post-apocalypse" setting, refugees surviving in a damaged world, that surival may depend upon removing the internal threats before they tear everything apart. So, this might not come as a suprise in the setting, if it weren't for the FreakAngel aspect. Kait being a FreakAngel would make it seem uneccesary to use such methods. With the ability to read minds, interrogation seems a waste of time and immoral at least. The only people she wouldn't be able to read would be those tampered with by another 'Angel, right? But if Alice was the first to be sent after them by Mark (as gathered from Connor and KK's conversation in the second episode), there shouldn't have been a need. And if it's just a place to hold them, there shouldn't be so much blood. A little, from a struggle or their own crimes, sure, but not like that. The things written on the walls indicate incarceration, (not neccesarily anything more than that) since they have to have time to write them and the desperation in them could just be from having been caught, or even witnessing some FA power. But there's all the blood. It all boils down to "Why would she need to torture information out of someone?" but the answer is, "She wouldn't" unless there are some mighty interesting circumstances. Not a lot of hope for that space being like that when she found it either.

    Oh Sirkka... What is the best course of action in that situation? Is it better to not have the horrific memories (which she may not have anyway, since she was brainwashed by Luke), even if it means someone messing with your mind? The question is whether or not she was aware of his activities while under his mental control. And it does seem like it could just be the most convenient way, since it keeps their secret, but maybe not the most ethical way. I still want to know if she would have simply remembered talking with Luke, maybe walking down the alley with him, then nothing until snapped out of it... or if she would remember being unable to control herself and everything that followed. I want to give Sirkka the benefit of doubt, but it's such a delicate situation.
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    I'm going to take this, as it is now, as a morals argument. As frexels alluded to upthread, what wins out? The Freakangels have a very strict rule about not messing with people's heads. So, rather than break that rule, Kait is forced to break some other rules. Which is better? *pulls up chair*

    Let's find out.
  6.  (6236.55)
    I have to remember not to read Freakangels at work. Last week's "Live Nude Luke" in particular made me do a mad dash to close the window before my boss turned the corner to chat.

    That said.

    Wow, Whitechapel looked rather idyllic at the beginning of the series, didn't it? After looking at that pool, all I can say is, "Welcome to the flip side."
  7.  (6236.56)

    I'll join in that discussion, though I'm sure (in a less civil place than this) it could prompt heated argument. I love this place.

    I think it depends on the individual circumstance, but how do you regulate that then? Connor used his powers on Alice to protect himself and to try to help her, who's to say it's that different to read a suspected (or confirmed) criminal's mind rather than torturing them? Wouldn't she be trying to protect herself (or Whitechapel) and, by way of not using torture, trying to help the person in question? Clearly that's not what she's done here, but could the "no mental tampering" rule really be her excuse for using torture to gather information instead? If it is, they need some clarification on that rule.
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    everytime I look at page 6 I see new details. Is that a little pool of water at the bottom?

    As far as the unbreakable rule, I thought it was they couldn't control people/force them to do something against their will, if I'm wrong (and it is a good chance I am) someone correct me.

    I would think that this does not preclude Kait from reading minds to find out what they did, when they did it and to whom, which would indicate to me that Kait's pool of torture and death is less about extracting information and more about punishment.

    Also remember people, this is the end of the world and a lot of weird shit has gone down. That doesn't make torture right or anything but societies rules and society in general has broken down, and it looks like Kait has had no problems with that at all.
  8.  (6236.58)
    I would think that this does not preclude Kait from reading minds to find out what they did, when they did it and to whom, which would indicate to me that Kait's pool of torture and death is less about extracting information and more about punishment.
    See, that's why I took it to be less about anything else and more about how she wants to have a bit of disturbing fun playing at Interrogator. If it's about punishment, why wouldn't the other 'Angels be involved? She clearly kept the area a secret from the others, and described it as a place she needed to take people to talk to them. It seems fairly clear this is her little torture-pen for extracting information.

    As far as the rules about using their powers on people, outside a few bad apples, I think there's been a pretty consistent observance of the harm principle and standard application of eminent domain going on. To me, the rape victim is getting scrubbed from possibly suffering trauma AND having any chance of unraveling the truth about their powers, which I think they've decided would be best kept secret. I think that's understandable and justifiable. Meaning Kait NOT using her powers to non-violently extract information (in fact she seems to go about it in a pointedly violent fashion) is not so justifiable.

    And, of course, using their powers to get balls-deep, also not so justifiable.

    ETA: out of curiosity, on page 6, are those scribbles between "I DON'T WANT TO DIE" and "LET ME OUT" actual words I can't make out, or just scribbles? And is that an arm hanging from a chain on the left there?
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    LBA: It's not that they can't do it, it's that they're not supposed to.

    And I think it's very interesting that Kait, for being so gung-ho on justice and order, seems to bend the rules where she sees fit in the pursuit of such. And Kait may well have problems with it. Being the loner she seems to be, I don't think she'd be too keen on asking for help with things like "Can someone help me with the best way to get some info out of this guy without nuking his brains or breaking his little finger?" Whether it's an individuality thing or an ego trip (or fetish, or whatever), I don't know. But Kait's been slowly getting more and more complex. Not just fucking mental, but complex.
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
    Woah... I REALLY slept in today.

    At first I was with Alice on this one... wiping that girl's memory of what happened to her was kind of a messed up thing to do... I mean, shouldn't she get checked out, doctor-wise after that? But then I realized, that if she'd found out what he'd done, she would have found out about the FreakAngels...
    Also, why didn't she wonder why she went for a walk with a guy wearing NO PANTS?

    Also, KAIT! You have a fucking swiming pool Vincent Price could be jealous of! Seriously... I think the FAs are going to soon learn just how different their morals are from each other very soon. This also makes me think that Kait really COULD be the Whitechapel murderer... looks like she NEEDS the excitement.