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Printheads: Comic design as graphic movement

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  1.  (6299.1)
    And I'm sitting here looking at these things, imagining a comic of this size that has a matte cover like the CD, perhaps even has no art at all on the cover like this CD, just a diagram or two, sleeve notes on the front and back.

    Because it's gotten stuck in my head that perhaps the 2.99 comic -- probably the comics single itself, eventually -- is going to become a niche, fetish object. So why not embrace that? Hell, why not embrace all the experiments we've done in things like cover design and backmatter and go the whole hog, package visual narrative fiction like modern experimental design objects. The comics single as Cultural Unit.

    - Warren on Bad Signal earlier


    Comics as fetish object then.

    It strikes me that there are probably an awful lot of people on the small press/zine circuit doing this now, and the most successful of those probably get numbers around what Touch reaches in terms of physical sales. (Alongside Touch (and the ZTT/Factory ethos that inspired them - product as Art Object) you've got Raster Norton and a slew of boutique labels through Europe)

    But what we're talking about is applying that to larger publishing houses, right? What do people think about that? What makes this more than doing a McKelvie and learning from album sleeves and gig posters to decorate your product?

    Is anyone on Whitechapel doing that now? (Is July 4th the wrong day to ask anyone a question on the internet?)
  2.  (6299.2)
    (Asides: I always imagined Raster-Noton as moving more units than Touch, for some reason. Also, I have it in my head that Touch predates ZTT by one or two years?)

    There's a lot of us who've been inserting ideas from "the outside world" (which, given some of the people in comics, is often how we think of it) into comics for years.

    It's about, in part, embracing the horror. If the 2.99 single -- if the single is general -- is essentially screwed, why not just throw off all the accreted values of the single and let the entire thing speak with a single voice? Which is not something comics generally do. I don't think, for instance, GREEK STREET is best served by its cover. How many truer ways were there to put a front on that book? Why does it just look like another comic?

    It is interesting to me to consider the notion that - if you'll excuse tastelessness -- the Weimar produced the Bauhaus as well as decadent bierkeller cabaret.

    None of this is revelatory, of course, and much of it pre-chews stuff I've been saying for 10 years or more. But having these two objects next to each other kind of kickstarted a train of thought that I wanted to get outside my head for longer consideration.
  3.  (6299.3)
    (Oh, yep, that'll teach me not to fact check: a two year gap)

    You're talking combination of manifesto/backmatter/design taste/wholly contained object then, using the single as much as a statement as a story? Or, rather, allowing it to be both, rather than just a part of a whole?

    So, Devil's advocate, what's the impetus for the publisher? Is this position one that demands a new publishing model: Fantographics exclusively for pamphlets?
  4.  (6299.4)
    Well, Fantagraphics does/did have a high-end singles line, the Ignatz Series.

    The impetus for the publisher... is an idea that's obviously a bit like screwing fog, but let me take a shot before I go back to this treatment.

    Like the FELL format, it's a signal that, no, we're not looking to screw you out of every penny. We'd like it to be EASIER for you to buy comics. (Many retailers loathed it. We still moved at least 20k units of each issue.) It's a stance that's attractive to some publishers.

    From a design point of view, it may prove true that publishers like the idea of a "product" that's more, not less, recognisable on a shelf. Shelf-blur is a real thing -- from even slight distance, a shelf of comics becomes a homogenous mess.

    And, ultimately, if a real breakpoint does approach, some creators are only going to go with the publishers flexible enough to entertain these ideas.
  5.  (6299.5)
    Many retailers loathed it.

    I had my store when Fell came out. Personally, I loved it because it sold. Comics that sold consistently made me happy, especially when I enjoyed them as much as the readers. I really don't understand a lot of the thinking that goes on in this business some days.
  6.  (6299.6)
    We'd like it to be EASIER for you to buy comics... It's a stance that's attractive to some publishers.


    There's also the doomed beauty of, say, Factory's 'Blue Monday' there: make it a best-selling thing, a total product that forces you to reconsider how disposable it is even if it looses money.

    And, ultimately, if a real breakpoint does approach, some creators are only going to go with the publishers flexible enough to entertain these ideas.


    So the barrier for the creator then becomes about incorporating the idea and the product... I wonder if this then becomes a more appealing platform for new creators, particularly Anglophone ones, given that we don't have the history of stepping outside of the format. Skipping over to SPX '09 in Stockholm certainly demonstrated the wealth of exploration going on there, a lot of it apparently quite popular, but - as with a lot of 'zine fests - there seemed to be a demarcation between content and presentation, either as two distinct camps of product or within the text itself.

    Touch et al work because the ideas demand that level of exploration. The essay on 'The Sinking of the Titanic' gives shape and context to ideas, frames a delicate work in a delicate package, and makes it an artefact because the source - the sinking - takes on an obsessional, precious quality for Bryars. It also forces you to consider how fragile the object in your hand is, like an instrument or a radio signal. Is it harder to attribute that intangible quality to a 22page sequential narrative?

    I keep thinking about the small press when I consider this, and by turn see the product distributed by hand or online, not in 'your local comic stores'. That's at least in part because Marc Ellerby's bullied me into perceiving the monthly pamphlet as 'part of the problem', but also because the record labels in question, if not outright boutique themselves, are only sold in a fraction of even specialist locations.

    But I'd love to see it: A shelf, not hidden under the 'indie' banner, full of ideas and shapes that begged for dissemination rather than just another part of the collection.
    •  
      CommentAuthorhowyadoin
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     (6299.7)
    There's a lot of us who've been inserting ideas from "the outside world" (which, given some of the people in comics, is often how we think of it) into comics for years.
    Speaking as a designer, thanks to all of you for that. And not just because the standard of graphic design is so fucking appalling in post-1980s comics.
  8.  (6299.8)
    "I keep thinking about the small press when I consider this, and by turn see the product distributed by hand or online, not in 'your local comic stores'. That's at least in part because Marc Ellerby's bullied me into perceiving the monthly pamphlet as 'part of the problem',"

    I don't think that reverting to cottage industry is the solution. I keep nagging Ellerby to do things that DON'T involve his distributing them by hand.

    The thing about the the monthly single is that it's hold is certainly broken, but a large number of comics stores still rely on them. And as broken and fucked-up as the comics-store system is, it's still an entire distribution system.
  9.  (6299.9)
    I don't think that reverting to cottage industry is the solution. I keep nagging Ellerby to do things that DON'T involve his distributing them by hand.


    If you're talking about something that's integrated with the narrative - and not a one-off comic-as-experiment wad of paper - I'll never understand why you wouldn't want to have a publisher crank it out.

    Besides the fact that it'll be printed, cut and folded at a real reproduction facility, someone like Image will print it on the free.

    Odd page size, +/- 22 pages, designed to the hilt, variable price point, etc... It's what I'm doing in the back half of the year.

    I'll shoot you a link to the PDF when it goes to press, Warren.
  10.  (6299.10)
    I don't think that reverting to cottage industry is the solution.


    Oh, I wouldn't want that to be the only outlet, not at all, but as a reader I'm used to seeing this in the handmade field. I imagine this'll be something that requires work on the shelf to persuade professional publishers and stores of the viability.

    Odd page size, +/- 22 pages, designed to the hilt, variable price point, etc... It's what I'm doing in the back half of the year.


    Enter Jonathan Hickman.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTF
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009 edited
     (6299.11)
    I saw this TED talk earlier this year and thought "if Hickman or Paul Pope did that with comics they'd own everyone".

  12.  (6299.12)
    I am interested to see Pope's design solution for BATTLING BOY.
  13.  (6299.13)
    "I am interested to see Pope's design solution for BATTLING BOY."

    me too! and since First Second is putting it out, you can be sure that the paper stock will be really nice. I think all of First Second's books look great and look more like the product of a European publisher.
    • CommentAuthorhank
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     (6299.14)
    I could see a high end release like something the Pentagram folks would come up with be very sharp and interesting.
  15.  (6299.15)
    When I went to the Fluke mini-comics convention in Athens, GA earlier this year I noticed how wonderfully creative the production of many of the books there were. The most impressive of these was THE BEAST MOTHER by Eleanor Davis. Here's an image of the cover which I think was hand cut.

    But can it still be a fetish object if you can only get it at obscure shows in small college towns? I wonder if the ability to get this kind of specialized design onto a mass-publication comic requires either a) that the creators have a working knowledge of design AND production or that b) the publisher has a great working relationship with their printer. Good printers will work with you to come up with eye-catching alternatives to stocks, colors, folds etc. without charging an arm and a leg. As Jonathan alluded above, Image seems to be the place to do this. VIKING is a great example, with a different page size and the varnish spots on the cover.

    I'm curious. Jonathan, when you did NIGHTLY NEWS and your other works with Image, were you able to communicate directly with the printer? Or does their production department handle it? Could you attend a press check if you wanted to? Were you satisfied with the printed product?
  16.  (6299.16)
    But can it still be a fetish object if you can only get it at obscure shows in small college towns?

    That's probably the very definition of a fetish object...!
  17.  (6299.17)
    I'm curious. Jonathan, when you did NIGHTLY NEWS and your other works with Image, were you able to communicate directly with the printer? Or does their production department handle it? Could you attend a press check if you wanted to? Were you satisfied with the printed product?

    Pretty much. Sure, there were some of the copies that the registration was off or the binding was a little screwy, but that's going to happen most every time. As for attending a press check, I'd never bother unless I was doing some ridiculous 7 color print or something, and as a personal rule - until I start doing specialty editions (and that's 2 years off right now) - I only bother with 4 color stuff.

    So I generally don't worry about the printer, or pre-press in general, because I know that what I'm giving them needs very little - if any - tweaking.

    I spend most of my available headspace worrying about color or design. For example, most of my Image work uses very limited palettes. Whether it's a 4 color set like in NN, or 2 color overlays in Red Mass, or 'scenes as hues' in Pax - all of that is a push back against over-saturated, dayglow-y comic coloring. More of a holistic approach to coloring opposed to the page-by-page method that you see in many books. (The best example of doing it right is, of course, Dave Stewart [shocking, I know] Regardless... Yes - the palette is always subtle and sublime, but it's clear he's thinking of the entire story. Not a page, Not and issue, but an arc or beyond.)

    I'm rambling... sorry.
    • CommentAuthorhelloMuller
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009 edited
     (6299.18)
    Speaking of the comics/music/design angle — Comic Book Tattoo is 12x12, the size of an LP; and we've included as many nods to album design/liner notes as possible to not make it look like a comic (personally I would've liked to pushed it further).

    I'm happy to finally see a bigger awareness for design in comics, I've been doing things (albeit on a small scale) for years trying to inject design into comics and get rid of the stereotype.

    Edited to add: The approach for VIKING of course, is brilliant (I had nothing to do with the choice of format or paper stock choice), but even that small change gives you so much more room to play with.

    On a general note: Fancy printing doesn't have to be expensive. Printing in Asia is dirt-cheap compared to US or European printers — and they can do all the fancy shmancy print gimmicks as good, or better.
  19.  (6299.19)
    I'll shoot you a link to the PDF when it goes to press, Warren.

    Thank you.

    I'm coming back to this, I swear... probably just after I attempt to convince a publisher that a certain cover should be nothing but Futura Bold on a cream matte stock...!
  20.  (6299.20)
    after I attempt to convince a publisher that a certain cover should be nothing but Futura Bold on a cream matte stock


    Good man!

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