2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16172#Comment_16172 2008-01-26T14:38:35-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 mrghosty http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2139

So I've really been enjoying the back matter that a lot of creators are adding to their comics these days. It's a real treat to get to see how the works are put together, to see script pages, ...

Casanova, Fell, Nightly News, dok sleepless, DEMO. I'd love to see more creators engage this kind of work. I think it's a wonderful treat for their readers.

Anyway I was just wondering what other people's thoughts are on this. What are your faves? And is anyone else as upset as me that when publishers put out Graphic Novels and Collections that they don't include the back matter that was in the individual issues?

Man that burns my britches.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16175#Comment_16175 2008-01-26T14:43:39-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Andre Navarro http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1561

Another book with backmatter would be Ed Brubaker's CRIMINAL. Very, very good. I also love to see script excerpts, the inspiration, the letters, etc.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16180#Comment_16180 2008-01-26T15:04:04-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Dracko http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2122

I got the first trade of Criminal and was disappointed to find that there was none of the backmatter found in the single issues. I suppose I'd have to seek them out, but I'm not sure they'd be worth ...

Criminal and was disappointed to find that there was none of the backmatter found in the single issues. I suppose I'd have to seek them out, but I'm not sure they'd be worth the trouble. Is this also the case with the Casanova and Fell trades?

And I don't really recall The Nightly News having much backmatter until it's trade release, actually.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16181#Comment_16181 2008-01-26T15:05:21-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2

I got the first trade of Criminal and was disappointed to find that there was none of the backmatter found in the single issues. I suppose I'd have to seek them out, but I'm not sure they'd be worth ...

I got the first trade of Criminal and was disappointed to find that there was none of the backmatter found in the single issues. I suppose I'd have to seek them out, but I'm not sure they'd be worth the trouble. Is this also the case with the Casanova and Fell trades?


It's true for FELL, dunno about CASANOVA. Backmatter's for the people who support the books in singles.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16184#Comment_16184 2008-01-26T15:09:31-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Dracko http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2122

I suspected as much. Good thing I buy those two in single issues, then. Criminal struck me as slightly too pricey at the time. What sort of things did it have?

Criminal struck me as slightly too pricey at the time. What sort of things did it have?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16187#Comment_16187 2008-01-26T15:14:58-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Andre Navarro http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1561

I suspected as much. Good thing I buy those two in single issues, then. Criminal struck me as slightly too pricey at the time. What sort of things did it have? The backmatter has mentions to noir ...

I suspected as much. Good thing I buy those two in single issues, then. Criminal struck me as slightly too pricey at the time. What sort of things did it have?

The backmatter has mentions to noir films that served as inspiration to the story, some random stuff by Ed Brubaker, a small box for Sean Phillips to say something, I believe a sketch here or there. Some interesting stuff. And texts that talk about a specific noir movie. Also, sometimes, another writer like Charles Huston says something about his favorite noir film. Didn't you write something for Criminal's backmatter, Warren?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16188#Comment_16188 2008-01-26T15:15:11-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2

What sort of things did it have? Well, in one issue, it had me, Fraction and Patton Oswalt...

What sort of things did it have?

Well, in one issue, it had me, Fraction and Patton Oswalt...]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16200#Comment_16200 2008-01-26T15:39:07-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Pooka http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=216

i love extra material. It ads another element to the preceding story.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16341#Comment_16341 2008-01-27T09:41:09-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 mrghosty http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2139

Backmatter's for the people who support the books in singles. I guess that makes sense. I have to admit that I'm one of those folks who loves not only the creative work by my favorite authors/ ...

Backmatter's for the people who support the books in singles.

I guess that makes sense. I have to admit that I'm one of those folks who loves not only the creative work by my favorite authors/ artists, but also loves all the supplementary material that allows me a glimpse at the process. One thing I am very happy about is the fact that many publishers understand this, and have published stand alone books about that very thing.

Avatar's publishing of Warren's BadSignal, From the Desk of.. etc is a great example. And Ait/Planetlar's publishing of come in alone/ Public Domain (Wood's Channel Zero Design Book), and there are more. It's nice to see that all this material is published.

I find that when I find a writer/artist who's work really impresses me, I want more. Not just more of their creative work.. but more of that behind the scenes stuff, their thoughts, opinions etc. After all, as an "outsider" medium, comics allow for much greater depth in social critique etc that we see elsewhere. And sometimes it's nice to hear directly from the creators themselves in addition to reading their "creative" work as allegory or metaphor or whatever.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16346#Comment_16346 2008-01-27T11:41:25-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Malifer http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=203

It's true for FELL, dunno about CASANOVA. Backmatter's for the people who support the books in singles. Interesting. One of the reason I stopped buying singles is because I noticed a lot of trades ...

It's true for FELL, dunno about CASANOVA. Backmatter's for the people who support the books in singles.

Interesting. One of the reason I stopped buying singles is because I noticed a lot of trades come out with "back matter" for a lower price than I paid for the issues. Obergeist, Powers, Invincible come to mind. There are tons of them. I guess from a business perspective though you could think of it either way. If someone has "vanilla" issues they may buy the trades for it's special stuff. But I think it is definitely a way to keep the singles fresh.

I have become a trade snob. For all the reasons I guess most people do, storage, completion, availability. Countless times my pull file was missed or issue 4 of a miniseries didn't come out for whatever reason and your stuck with half a story. Amazon is awesome, I buy a trade with Ellis' name on it and every time a new one comes out they email me & it's 30% off with possible free shipping. I don't know if I could ever go back to the bags, boards and boxes.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16356#Comment_16356 2008-01-27T13:32:36-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Ava Jarvis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=317

I try to buy both issues and trades of a series. Issues, because I want to creators to eat sometime in the next couple months. Trades, because they are ultimately more pass-aroundable to my ...

For some reason, I haven't been able to sell the idea of single issues to people I know these days. Maybe if comics came inside of a bigger magazine, like some serials used to (single issues are, after all, serial work); gods know that they pre-order the next _Age of Bronze_ trade and get it before I even know it's there (much to my shame). Or eat through _Lone Wolf & Cub_ like mice and grain.

*sighs and is sad*]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16357#Comment_16357 2008-01-27T13:34:34-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Ava Jarvis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=317

(Backmatter doesn't help. They like it, but they just forget. And somehow pre-orders and subscriptions for issues don't enter into their heads. They want to be able to pre-order at Amazon. If that ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16415#Comment_16415 2008-01-27T17:23:20-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 mrghosty http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2139

Now's there's an enterprising idea. A comic pre-order mail service. I'm moving to northern manitoba and if something like amazon had that. boy that would be keen :)

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16416#Comment_16416 2008-01-27T17:24:36-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 morganagrom http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=553

I don't particularly care about the "backmatter." If it wasn't important enough to the story to keep in print as a paperback, it isn't important enough for me to worry about.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16418#Comment_16418 2008-01-27T17:40:27-08:00 2008-01-28T00:41:50-08:00 Dracko http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2122

When it came to Casanova, some of it tied right into the story. I'm not sure if they did away with it in those circumstances, but I'd have to see the trade. I can understand not including letters, ...

Casanova, some of it tied right into the story. I'm not sure if they did away with it in those circumstances, but I'd have to see the trade. I can understand not including letters, interviews or reactions in the trades, as insightful as they may be, but I couldn't imagine the Casanova experience without some of its backmatter.

But as I mentioned above, it's down to money for me. If it was cheaper for me to buy the singles instead of the collected trades, then I'd do so. When it comes to Casanova and Fell, that's exactly what I do. Not so with Criminal. And The Nightly News trade, from what I understand, delivered a lot, lot more than the singles in that regard, what with further annotations by Hickman, his aferword and short essay on entering the business. That was a great package.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16533#Comment_16533 2008-01-28T00:37:45-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 ChrisSick http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=530

Back matter always seems very hit and miss to me. Concept sketches, script notes, outlines, real world source material, all that can be great. But it can also be a drag to read a writer or artist ...

The concept, at it's most basic is the same as DVD supplemental features, which are the same way. If there's a two hour documentary on the collector's edition of Trainspotting with Irvine Welsh and Danny Boyle discussing the process, it's great, if it's two hours of some over inflated ego actor talking about they connected to the character, I'd rather just skip it all together.

The Fell gambit, I thought, was a great chance, each issue is accessible, cheap, and has plenty of insight into the process, which if you're a wanna be writer or creator, is just what you're looking for.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16555#Comment_16555 2008-01-28T01:51:10-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 JoeL http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2153

Back matter always seems very hit and miss to me. I completely agree. Although, with comics, I think it would be a wise decision of the publisher to give collected trades the same kind of ...

Back matter always seems very hit and miss to me.


I completely agree. Although, with comics, I think it would be a wise decision of the publisher to give collected trades the same kind of treatment that, say, DVDs get when a company like Criterion reissue them.

I've always felt it was kind of a waste of time when the collected version of something comes out and the only supplemental material you get is 3 pages of conceptual drawings. Because other than the convenience of having all the issues in one volume, what's the point of purchasing this material a second time? Usually, this so-called "bonus material" does very little in the way of enhancing the experience.

It's like, when a movie comes out on DVD, and then again 5 months later with the only difference being the box art and 6 minutes of "never before seen deleted scenes." When this happens, I tend to feel ripped off. Same thing goes for trades.

For me, personally, single issues AND trades should always have exclusive material. I think it keeps things interesting for the reader and, from a marketing perspective, it's good business strategy.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16567#Comment_16567 2008-01-28T02:41:38-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 BenelGermosen http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2041

Well, in one issue, it had me, Fraction and Patton Oswalt... Then it exploded because it could not contain so much awesome on a page.

Well, in one issue, it had me, Fraction and Patton Oswalt...

Then it exploded because it could not contain so much awesome on a page.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16574#Comment_16574 2008-01-28T03:06:01-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 olivertwisted http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1518

I like the idea of the singles having material that isn't in the trades. It just seems like those people who buy the singles ought to get rewarded. Ideally I'd get the singles and the trades of ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=16598#Comment_16598 2008-01-28T04:52:34-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Owsler http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=861

I think the backmatter that supports the story is great, as long as it doesn't become a crutch, but of course it shouldn't be essential. Or if it is, it should be available online or as part of a ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=17175#Comment_17175 2008-01-29T13:13:34-08:00 2008-01-29T13:13:52-08:00 morganagrom http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=553

I'm hurting Criminal. At least according to Ed Brubaker. http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=144909 "[P]eople who are waiting for the trade to read books are actually hurting ...

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=144909

"[P]eople who are waiting for the trade to read books are actually hurting those books. It's hurting their chances of longevity."

Too bad. It sounds like the people "waiting for the trade" are doing so for a reason. Mine is that the Graphic Novels seem to be written as if they were intended to be read in one complete sitting, so why not buy them that way. No amount of "backmatter" is going to get me to buy the serials. The fact that they had to relaunch suggests that it's not getting other people to buy it as serials either. Perhaps they should just skip the serials and publish the Graphic Novels once or twice a year as special events and push hard in promoting them.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=17177#Comment_17177 2008-01-29T13:23:29-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 Doctor Pockets http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=66

"[P]eople who are waiting for the trade to read books are actually hurting those books. It's hurting their chances of longevity." This proves that the current business model of the ...

This proves that the current business model of the comics industry is a bad one. If a company has to force the customer to buy the product in a format that they don't like just to ensure that it will be produced at a later date in a format they will like, then the company isn't servinge their customers very well.

And, while I understand Brubaker's position (he wants the comic he's putting a lot of love into to survive), it's not the customers' fault if they're buying the story in their prefered format. It's Marvel's fault (and DC's, etc.) for not being creative enough with their business model to figure out to deliver the product to the customer in all of the best ways possible.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=17183#Comment_17183 2008-01-29T13:31:05-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 jeffx http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=334

One of my favorite things in back matter is when they list playlists. Some of the best back matter is, most of which has already been listed, is Criminal, Local, and Fell. Brian Wood's Demo also ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=17185#Comment_17185 2008-01-29T13:34:22-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 morganagrom http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=553

Brubaker is attempting to frame Criminal as a magazine with a comics portion and supplemental prose portion. The failing with that comparison is that most magazines on the newstands they don't rely ...

True, the first 3 issues of the relaunch are going to be standalones, but then it's back to serial publication, so it's not going to bring anyone over from book buying to serial buying in the long term.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=647&Focus=17374#Comment_17374 2008-01-29T21:19:14-08:00 2013-05-22T16:01:58-07:00 mrghosty http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2139

This proves that the current business model of the comics industry is a bad one. If a company has to force the customer to buy the product in a format that they don't like just to ensure that it will ...

This proves that the current business model of the comics industry is a bad one. If a company has to force the customer to buy the product in a format that they don't like just to ensure that it will be produced at a later date in a format they will like, then the company isn't servinge their customers very well.

You know this sounds reasonable to me. In many ways I want to support the artist on a month to month basis (and there are those that i do) but yeah I find that most "entertainment" industries seem to be struggling with the proper methods of content delivery to their consumer base. Just think about the whole video market. Once DVD finally forced the Swan Song of VHS, poof! here's like 2 new formats (competing and not compatible at that) and we'll start pumping these out and making you buy the same media again ......That's why I think there needs to be a balanced approach and for good or ill more publishers need to acknowledge that at either end of the spectrum we folks out here are still supporting the material and the artists.]]>