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    • CommentAuthoredyhdrawde
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.1)
    Since there seems to be a little bit more intelligence here then in most forums. What do you think of Kirkman's Ultimate X-Men and the Knauf father and son team's Iron Man?

    I have enjoyed the runs on both books, but it seems that most people on forums dislike both runs, but they lack a reasoning behind their dislike. Much like the currect hating of Judd Winnick's work, which I sometimes enjoy and other times I don't.
  1.  (651.2)
    slightly off subject, i love kirkman, but havent been reading UXM. i avoid that universe whenever possible, but i do plan to read his run once its finished.

    the problem may be that MOST (not al) comic msg boards are full of peole that are the stereotypical comic book elitist nerds. most of the folks on here seem to be actual, well rounded folks that happen to love comics.
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      CommentAuthorEgon
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008 edited
     (651.3)
    I don't read many Ultiamte titles because I can only put so much effort into keeping track of a universe full of spandex clad heroes. Marvel 616 is enough. Kirkman's Walking Dead is something I always look forward too, though.

    Team Knauf on the other hand is amazing. I like what they've done with the Mandarin, especially with this last issue.

    Although I do miss Carnivale. :(
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      CommentAuthortedcroland
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.4)
    I love Kirkman, but his Ultimate X-Men has been a very long, contrived love letter to the early nineties IMO. First we got Ultimate Cable...who was actually Ultimate Wolverine. Great, another Wolverine. Now we have Ultimate X-Force (basically), and we're getting Ultimate ONSLAUGHT. It's gotta be a joke, really. I just have a hard time enjoying a run on a book that is nothing more than a fond retelling of a time when everything was shallow and useless.

    But, then again, I'm not a huge X-Men fan either. I read Ultimate X-Men because it's Ultimate, and genuinely had some good runs on it. I'm hoping that they bring someone else on that has the same sensibility as Millar of Vaughan. I'll read Kirkman's Walking Dead and Invincible until the end, but his Marvel work (Ant-Man and Marvel Team Up aside) has been kind of lackluster.
  2.  (651.5)
    lets not even get into invincible...that book has been great since day one! i wish cory walker and ryan ottley would just alternate issues- i would be great for the art, and they would both appear to be more timely. strangely, even though i love zombies and consume any and all zombie movies, walking dead doesnt grab me the way i wish it would.
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.6)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I'm going to be a voice of dissent here and say I can't stand Kirkman. I don't know what people see in the guy. His writing is clunky and serves only for awkward plot exposition which he'd be better off doing within the stories themselves. <em>The Walking Dead</em> is long-winded and tedious with no interesting characters to speak of and <em>Ultimate X-Men</em> just can't compare to Mike Carey's stuff. <em>Invincible</em> is okay, I guess, but doesn't do much for me. I can understand why some call it the new <em>Spider-Man</em>, though.

    The Knaufs are stellar, though. I'd love it if they could write outside of superhero stuff, though, or at the least focus their stories squarely on Iron Man, but what they do is fun times, at the least.
  3.  (651.7)
    I'm going to be a voice of dissent here and say I can't stand Kirkman.

    You can't stand his work. I'm guessing you've never met the guy.

    Seriously, if you guys are going to have this conversation, let's at least pitch it at an adult level, okay?
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.8)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    That was the implication, yes. He's probably a nice enough guy (at least that's the sense his work gives off, make of that what you will).
    • CommentAuthoredyhdrawde
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.9)
    I enjoy Kirkman's stuff. While I haven't read much of Invincible, or Walking Dead, I've enjoyed his Ultimate X-Men. I loved the fact that Cable was Wolverine from the future. I like his handle of the characters. His Woldman book is just plain fun.

    As for the Knauf's I've enjoyed their Iron Man, they had a tough road taking over after the Extremis, and then having Tony thrust in the role at SHIELD. Yet the book is well done, and enjoyable. I do miss their Carnivale, though. Now that is a shame.
  4.  (651.10)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Oh thank god, I thought Dracko new Kirkman personally and he was just a big tool...
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.11)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Yeah, I didn't mean to give off that impression. Apologies. I just think his oeuvre would work better if he didn't make it all that obvious, I suppose. Take <em>Invincible</em>. One of the things I remember the most poignantly is how, during fights, characters get truly brutalised. That's a good, even logical, take. It makes sense and its clever. But then when you look at how he <em>writes</em> his characters, within <em>The Walking Dead</em> or anything else, I find it exceedingly hard to empathise when all they're doing is pointing out what they're already doing via their actions. I think he should either keep it quiet or point out other details. It makes me feel overall unsympathetic. I had the same problem with <em>Girls</em>, which was otherwise an intriguing take on the weird horror-survival genre.
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      CommentAuthorTrotsky
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.12)
    You can't stand his work. I'm guessing you've never met the guy.

    Seriously, if you guys are going to have this conversation, let's at least pitch it at an adult level, okay



    Warren, you're such an English teacher!

    This is great!

    It's like extending our formal educations...
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      CommentAuthorCyman
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008 edited
     (651.13)
    I haven't read Knauf... but I assume I should.
    Kirkman though, I don't like. I haven't met him. I don't like him.
    When my cousin hooked me on comics a year or two ago, the books he lent me to get me started were: Fell 1-7, Desolation Jones and Nextwave 1 TPBs, Scott Pilgrim 1, Pride of Baghdad, Ex Machina Vol. 1, The Ultimates 1 and The Walking Dead volume 1. Since then, I've read just about everything Warren's written, and almost never let down (Thanks); Generally all my favorite stuff has his name on it (Or Ennis, Millar, or Vaughn). By the same token, I sought to read more Brian Vaughn stuff, and he's also brilliant. Somewhere in there I grabbed Preacher. And then I sought to read the rest of Kirkman's work.
    Now, after Tony Moore stopped drawing TWD, the book started sucking horribly. I read volume 1, which I still think is great, but the series has gone downhill from there, and nowhere but. I still keep picking it up though, and I'm continuously disappointed by his lazy writing and lazy art. It reads like it's thrown together by a few guys with a deadline. But before I noticed this, I threw a bunch of my money away on Invincible and some other stuff I hated so much I don't even remember the name. He's clearly doing something right though... (or else most people are idiots...) I know I'm going to keep picking up Walking Dead because really it was one of my favorite comics for a while. I've been hopefully picking up Wolfman too, which has been a constant let down. When he seeks to be just a "fun writer", that's all he can be. Nothing happens in his fucking comics. The Omni-Man twist in Invincible was awesome, then he seems to have run out of ideas, so he has his characters run around and make jokes. But somehow I know I'll keep giving him my money...for some reason I want so badly for his books to be good that I buy them. Always so hopeful; Always so hopeless.
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      CommentAuthorCyman
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008 edited
     (651.14)
    Oh, now I remember! Because Ant-Man was so great! Man, Ant-Man was the geatest; So much fun. I love a superhero who watches Ms. Marvel shower and fucks his buddy's ex on his grave; Brilliant! But again, he doesn't go anywhere with it. Maybe because he knew it was cancelled, but the last 3 issues are remarkably shitty.
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      CommentAuthortedcroland
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2008
     (651.15)
    See, I disagree. If the point of the story was that you were supposed to like or agree with the main character, it wouldn't have been called The Irredeemable Ant-Man. Ant Man was great because it was a breath of fresh air amongst a Civil War and House of M ridden universe, and was actually fun to read while have concise characterization and a story that, by my interpretation, followed through and ended well. I'll concede it was a concept that could only go so far, but it was nice to have someone who wasn't wholly altruistic or unrepentantly evil being put into a super powers position.

    I don't mean to be condescending, but it seems like you're starting an argument of preference which is unfair and unnecessary in this thread. Being invasively critical about a creator in a conversation of weighing his strengths and weaknesses, to the point where you sarcastically deride one of his works even after stating your opinion more concisely a post previous, is kind of lame from my standpoint.
    • CommentAuthorNecros
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2008
     (651.16)
    Just to throw out an unmentioned comic by Kirkman...I really have been enjoying The Amazing Wolfman.

    All things considered I think The Walking Dead is a really interesting concept executed well, and a highly entertaining read. Who else has stated that they would like to see what would happen if a zombie movie never ended and then made that happen as a comic?
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      CommentAuthororwellseyes
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2008 edited
     (651.17)
    what would happen if a zombie movie never ended and then made that happen as a comic?


    What I liked about Walking Dead from the get go was that the Zombie epidemic was more of a background thing. The real story was about a world gone off the tracks. People going from lives of comfort and ease to a struggle simply to survive. Freezing to death, starvation and bastards with guns are far scarier than the ghouls lumbering about. For getting that I give Kirkman alot of credit. Go look at some of the other zombie books that have come out, see how many of them really understand that.

    That said, I stopped buying the book monthly when I realized it was much more satisfying to read in big chunks. The pacing of the book is very slow and deliberate. Oddly, it reminds me of "Cerebus" in that respect.

    I never read any of his superhero work, not a genre I go for.
  5.  (651.18)
    I love Robert Kirkman, he's one of my favorite writers working today. I dropped his Ultimate X-Men though, because I just couldn't get into the new team he put together.

    The Knaufs have been doing a bang-up job on Iron Man, and it's a shame their work has been overlooked.
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      CommentAuthorOwsler
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2008
     (651.19)
    I can't put my finger on it, but after reading a few issues of Ultimate I can't believe it's the same guy who puts out Walking Dead. In some parts there's a real dearth of maturity, especially in a couple of the relationships; very surprising if you're a follower of WD. I've read a few complaints about Kirman's plotting on WD, but in a similar way to Lost there's always an issue on the horizon that justifies the pace and absolutely nails you with a surprising cliffhanger.

    I remember almost dropping the series after the first trade because I absolutely despised the main characters wife, and in many ways I still do, and that's not because of a failing on Kirman's part, in fact it's great praise for writing a truly human character.
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2008
     (651.20)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I always found <em>Lost</em> to be a cynical piece of work, though. it constantly feels like they're just trying to top themselves with weirdness so as to garner attention without ever delivering. <em>The Walking Dead</em> at the least has a clear direction going for it, but when you consider how little has actually happened in 60+ (Or is it 50+?) issues, it's kind of stretching thin.