Whitechapel - Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181206#Comment_181206 2009-08-07T14:32:26-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 I'm new here, and I did a search for any similar topic and couldn't find any. If this has already been gone over, feel free to send me an arse eel. I'll even pay the postage. Okay, kids. It's the ...
Okay, kids. It's the end of the fucking world, and no reprieve is in sight. Assuming you're lucky enough to live in Whitechapel, you have a few options. A lot of folks seem to be learning trades or working in some way. Making bread, maybe even herding sheep or something, though that's not seen. Gotta make new clothes from something, though, huh? A small group of folks seem to be shacking up in Sirkka's place and...well, we don't really see what they do except for sleeping, but I assume that there's a bit of fucking going on (along with helping to man a huge-ass gun every now and again). And I'm also assuming that Sirkka's Freakangel package is capable of keeping any unwanted pregnancies from happening.

Now, obviously, we don't know the selection process of who gets to lay around in bed with Sirkka all day. All the people there seem really attractive, and I know I wouldn't fall into that category, nor would most people. But let's assume you're given the option: you can lay around in bed all day with attractive people, eat well, and generally just hang out. I'm sure they do other stuff, but that seems to be the main focus of their lifestyle.

The problem is, there's a whole community out there working their asses off just to survive. So do you learn a trade, till the fields or whatever, or just fuck all day?

I'm really not sure what I'd do. My immediate response is, "to hell with that, I'm gonna work!" But...it's the end of the world. As far as you can tell, things aren't going to get any better. Just to have that physical comfort in such overwhelmingly horrible times must be a great relief. So I dunno.

What about you guys?

(this is, of course, assuming you don't know the true nature of the Freakangels, as only Alice seems to. So no "I'm not gonna let some psychic madam in MY head!")

PS: how the hell do these people even get food if they just lay around all day? And electricity? In the last episode, Christmas lights or something like them are clearly shown draped over Sirkka's bed. What do they do to earn their keep? Just man the big gun? I suppose that sort of makes sense.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181211#Comment_181211 2009-08-07T15:35:01-07:00 2009-08-07T15:35:57-07:00 johnjones http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1052 Here's the thing. Once again, we've really only seen a fairly small slice of life in Whitechapel and we shouldn't make assumptions based on what we've seen. That said, it probably makes more sense ...
Just think of it as church - with lots of really hot but consensual sex.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181256#Comment_181256 2009-08-07T17:34:16-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 James Puckett http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2911 Fuck no. I went to public school in the years right after all my teachers had watched people die of AIDS, so I was taught to have an almost instinctual fear of anything that might lead to venereal ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181257#Comment_181257 2009-08-07T17:36:40-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 mister hex http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4411 In a heart-beat. Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181265#Comment_181265 2009-08-07T17:51:42-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 @johnjones This is, of course, entirely possible. We know very little of what really goes on in Whitechapel. Sirkka, however, refers to those folks as "my people." She speaks as though she ... This is, of course, entirely possible. We know very little of what really goes on in Whitechapel. Sirkka, however, refers to those folks as "my people." She speaks as though she is the leader of that group. I cannot remember where, exactly, but I seem to recall her saying that they'll do whatever she wants. And the general populace of Whitechapel do not seem to be Sirkka followers.

Respectfully, as I can see where you're coming from, I don't really think it's like a temple. Or at least not a temple that just anyone can go to and leave when they want. More like a commune. As you said, this is totally speculation, but just because we don't know something doesn't mean we shouldn't try to come up with some possibilities, especially in fiction. I really do think that if it was like you said, a temple or church of some sort where people go to get a minute's reprieve from the horror that surrounds them, it've been mentioned. I'm honestly not in the mood to put fourth the effort to look for specific quotes and cite them, but when Luke and even Jack have talked about her "harem" (I hesitate to use that term without quotes indicating irony), it seems like a group of people who devote themselves to Sirkka and her teachings. I think that Sirkka sees herself as something of a guru. For example, after the refugees are adopted, she conducts a seminar to keep them from living in fear all the time. Admirable, but at the same time it would require her to put fourth ideas as to how to live in the relatively safe community that is Whitechapel. Control, certainly, though not intentionally malevolent. Hegemony? maybe. The Freakangels obviously believe that they should be in control, even if they don't like the idea. But I digress.

When the attack happened, a bunch of Sirkka's followers jumped to action. They were trained, they knew what to do. I doubt that every Whitechapel resident knows how to prime said big-ass gun.

All I'm saying is that I think it's more of a closed community. We haven't heard much about people saying, "Hey, it's friday, I'm gonna go to the weekly orgy at Sirkka's." I fully admit that I could be wrong, and wouldn't be at all surprised if I am. This is just the conclusion I've tentatively come to in light of the information that's been provided thus far.

If Sirkka's place is as johnjones says, I'd spend at least a few nights a week there. A warm body next to your own does a lot to mitigate the horrors the of the world. But that's not how I see it.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181270#Comment_181270 2009-08-07T17:58:09-07:00 2009-08-07T18:12:41-07:00 Fan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919 Someone once said that Sirkka is trying to redefine human relationships. I don't know what that "new relationship" is, except that it's not something Jack wants. Asking whether you would ...
Asking whether you would want to be part of that may be akin to asking whether you enjoy psychotherapy.

One of the oddest tings about it is how time-consuming it is.

Also, asking this might be missing the point: I'm not saying that Sirkka is dehumanising her companions, but they might exist only as props which the author uses to illustrate Sirkka's character and interests (in a game of Dungeons and Dragons they're like "non-player characters": props or background with only very thinly-developed characters and motives).]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181298#Comment_181298 2009-08-07T19:06:46-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 @Fan This thread isn't quite as popular as I'd hoped it'd be when I posted it. I don't wanna be that guy who responds to every single post in the thread he started. But still, here I go. I ...
This thread isn't quite as popular as I'd hoped it'd be when I posted it. I don't wanna be that guy who responds to every single post in the thread he started. But still, here I go.

I wouldn't ever claim to be a Warren Ellis expert. As far as I can tell, though, while his feelings and themes are often similar, his works are quite diverse. If I know anything about Ellis, it's that his work has a major focus on the stuff going on in the background.

Transmetropolitan, for example. The second epic-length comic I ever read all the way through (after Sandman). The stories themselves focus on Spider and his assistants, but a huge part of it is how the world around him reacts to his actions, and how he reacts to them. That was the whole point. He brought down the POTUS, for fuck's sake, with popular support. And he was just a journalist. These are lords of the apocalypse, as much as any of them would deny it to most people. And Sirkka is apparently some sort of sex cult leader. Not evil. She's not bad. But from what I've seen it's a sex cult.

If I know Ellis' work, and I'm not saying that I do, Sirkka's little group will play a more important role than you believe.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181321#Comment_181321 2009-08-07T21:01:48-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 "This is, of course, entirely possible. We know very little of what really goes on in Whitechapel. Sirkka, however, refers to those folks as "my people." She speaks as though she is ...
Yeah and if I recall correctly "whatever she wants" includes going out in work-gangs to repair the damage after the recent attack.

So it's hardly cost-free.

And presumably freak-magic takes care of the STD's and the unwanted pregnancies.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181325#Comment_181325 2009-08-07T21:22:59-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 looneynerd http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5373 In a word, yes. I'm lazy and an unabashed hedonist. Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181332#Comment_181332 2009-08-07T21:47:28-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 munin218 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=246 Im assuming, especially with the "redefining human relationships" bit, its a lot more than simply a "sex cult". Relationships ceasing to be defined by the rigid standards of ...
Relationships ceasing to be defined by the rigid standards of religion and old social mores.

Interesting stuff.

I think I may get where he's going with that....maybe.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181333#Comment_181333 2009-08-07T21:49:57-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 rickiep00h http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2930 @looneynerd - I can't help but think "lazy" is not a trait that works in that situation. Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181334#Comment_181334 2009-08-07T21:58:37-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 looneynerd http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5373 But the Hedonism overrides. That. I can take brief periods of intense work if it means I get to lounge around all the time :P Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181337#Comment_181337 2009-08-07T22:03:22-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Val A Lindsay II http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1680 Someone once said that Sirkka is trying to redefine human relationships. Maybe Sirrka is acting as a telepathic medium between partners? Perhaps she's thinking that the power that sex has over us ... Someone once said that Sirkka is trying to redefine human relationships.

Maybe Sirrka is acting as a telepathic medium between partners? Perhaps she's thinking that the power that sex has over us can be overcome with the kind of power she has at hand. On a basic level, the primate strives for shelter, food and to reproduce. Being social creatures, add in clearly understood communication and things within that social group work quite nicely.

If this is the case, Hell yes I'd join the harem. Life would be a lot easier without the sexual anxiety I have and I could concentrate clearly on other things when need arises.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181353#Comment_181353 2009-08-07T23:31:18-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 silentruth http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6020 yes. simply because sirkka is fucking hot. and because i might even get a chance to see jack naked.. but i doubt i'd get to do anything more than that =( lol sry.. not answering this ... simply because sirkka is fucking hot.
and because i might even get a chance to see jack naked.. but i doubt i'd get to do anything more than that =(


lol sry.. not answering this seriously.
i suppose if it came down to it, i wouldn't because i hate lying around doing nothing. but i'd definitely sign up if there was a part time position xD]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181356#Comment_181356 2009-08-07T23:52:03-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Purple Wyrm http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6726 Personally, no. Strict Catholic upbringing (I'm recovering, thanks for asking!) and intimacy issues beyond the wildest dreams of analysts. Attractive, self possessed, sexually confident people like ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181362#Comment_181362 2009-08-08T00:22:57-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 DavidLejeune http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4220 Why does it have to be an either/or proposition? I can't go be a productive citizen who bakes bread, or helps Caz install solar panels or whatever during the day, and then go back to Sirkka's love ...
This is just the conclusion I've tentatively come to in light of the information that's been provided thus far.
I don't think you're properly considering the timeline of the information that's been provided so far. Volumes 1 and 2 take place during the span of one day, from early(ish) morning to sunset. In that time we only get one shot of Sirkka's harem, and that's in the morning. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that all Sirkka's people do is lay about having intensely mindblowing sex all day. If anything, Episode 50 Page 2 argues pretty distinctly against that.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181366#Comment_181366 2009-08-08T00:51:14-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 @DavidLejeune You make a good point. However, I think that the day and change that we've seen in Whitechapel is supposed to be a microcosm of their daily reality as a whole. And as far as the ...
You make a good point. However, I think that the day and change that we've seen in Whitechapel is supposed to be a microcosm of their daily reality as a whole. And as far as the episode and page you cited, all we see is Sirkka herself mentoring a group of people being integrated into Whitechapel, not having anything to do with the her followers. They might BECOME her followers, yes, but there's no indication that they will do that. I'm sure some small portion of the refugees will join her group.

I will admit that I was wrong, and not as thoughtful as I should have been. "Sex cult" is a stupid term for what they do. Love cult, maybe. Even "cult" might be a bad word. We simply don't know enough about how one is admitted to her group and how, once admitted, one lives.

Obviously, there are strings attached. Manning the big gun is the obvious part. As Kosmopolit pointed out, after the attack they went and helped clean up the damage. So there're responsibilities. if I was given the opportunity to work hard three quarters of my waking life, and cuddle and fuck the last quarter...well, sign me up.

DavdLejeune: responding directly to you. You could very well be totally right. Based on what I've seen, thus far, however, I do not think that's how it works. Sirkka's people are Sirkka's people. She'll rent them out when times get hard, but most of the time they seem to be chilling at her place.

But, like I and others have said, we've only seen a day and change. There could very well be a pretty huge paradigm shift in the near future, either of how they live or how we THINK they live. This is Warren Ellis we're talking about.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181367#Comment_181367 2009-08-08T01:00:18-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Androdjinni http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5012 It seems to me that the harem acts as a deployable and versatile task force, showing up whenever helping hands, not otherwise occupied with water purification or sheep herding, are needed. Another ...
And I'd join in a hot minute, or however long it took. :)]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181371#Comment_181371 2009-08-08T01:35:02-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 E0157H7 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4212 Honestly, in the world that Whitechapel takes place I would be too busy with cleaning my gun and scavenging things to barter to worry about orgies. Someone has to keep the nice orgy-enthusiast ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181394#Comment_181394 2009-08-08T05:15:54-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Pooka http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=216 hmm...yes...yes I would join her family. from what I've read, I admire her philosophies...and...um...parts. I'm a girl who needs to feel safe, loved, and secure... Once upon a time I kinda ...
but if I were flung into the freakangel world, and if they could heal my arthritis, well, I'd be greatful enough to go where ever the hell the angels wanted me to go. Orgy land or sewer treatment, yay me, I'm a team player! ;P
actually...the job I'd love the most would be growing those strawberries with kirk/carl (dammit...i can't remember which does what)....]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181401#Comment_181401 2009-08-08T05:56:37-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Fauxhammer http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=27 hmm let me think deal with starvation, disease, and looters in the flooded wasteland or spend all day and night in a near-constant fuck haze hmm hmm
deal with starvation, disease, and looters in the flooded wasteland

or spend all day and night in a near-constant fuck haze

hmm

hmm]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181433#Comment_181433 2009-08-08T08:48:18-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2 But from what I've seen it's a sex cult. And, of course, you've seen almost nothing. But from what I've seen it's a sex cult.


And, of course, you've seen almost nothing.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181439#Comment_181439 2009-08-08T09:05:23-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 VertigoJones http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4512 This ties in with Lukes queries as to why what he does is seen as so different to Sirkka. It has the initial appearance of being clean-cut, and then I contemplate the fact that we don't really see ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181442#Comment_181442 2009-08-08T09:18:55-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 E0157H7 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4212 I get the feeling that it's just a group of people that stuck to each other, with a charismatic patron saint at the center, to keep from the ragingly depressing reality of their shit world from ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181444#Comment_181444 2009-08-08T09:25:56-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 mister hex http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4411 I doubt that there's a cart being trundled around the streets while The Sex Brigade tosses new conscripts into it. "Bring out your Fuckables!" I doubt that there's a cart being trundled around the streets while The Sex Brigade tosses new conscripts into it.

"Bring out your Fuckables!"]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181445#Comment_181445 2009-08-08T09:32:57-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 E0157H7 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4212 @mister hex - I was actually thinking of that Monty Python bit when I wrote that. Now I'm thinking that the idea of some sponge-headed sex freaks wandering around in their underwear with an ox-drawn ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181453#Comment_181453 2009-08-08T10:20:36-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Fauxhammer http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=27 I think it would look more like a conga line into Sirkka's chamber. I just redeemed "Hot Hot Hot" for you all from the wedding DJs. I am a culture hero. I am Prometheus to David ...
I just redeemed "Hot Hot Hot" for you all from the wedding DJs. I am a culture hero. I am Prometheus to David Johannsen's flame.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181459#Comment_181459 2009-08-08T10:53:32-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 And, of course, you've seen almost nothing. Urgh. I forgot that you're actually reading this stuff. That's a bit embarrassing. Though I suppose that commenting on any artist's work while he's ... And, of course, you've seen almost nothing.

Urgh. I forgot that you're actually reading this stuff. That's a bit embarrassing. Though I suppose that commenting on any artist's work while he's looking in is a bit embarrassing. Still, never claimed to. I'm sure the social dynamic of Sirkka's group will become more clear as time goes on. Just speculating on what you've given us.

This ties in with Lukes queries as to why what he does is seen as so different to Sirkka. It has the initial appearance of being clean-cut, and then I contemplate the fact that we don't really see any of it. I think what goes on in there is possibly consensual, in the same way as living in a crackhouse is consensual, I'd be tempted to stand on the lines on this, despite how appealing the premise of possibly getting to lounge/fuck all day is. I'm quite certain theres a cost to it.

It's seen differently because it is different. Luke raped that girl, plain and simple. Even if she doesn't remember, even if there are absolutely no physical traces, he raped her. Sirkka, on the other hand, took away those horrible memories without the girl's consent. Which was also wrong. But they're not on the same level.

As far as the "crack house" reference goes...I doubt Sirkka'd allow some crazy sex addict to live with her. It'd disrupt the harmony she's trying to achieve. These seem to be people who want to be there and aren't forced by either her or their own urges. Though again, of course, this is just speculation (do I have to keep saying that? Look, from now on, EVERYTHING I say is speculation)]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181464#Comment_181464 2009-08-08T11:15:03-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Jay Kay http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=814 Considering what we've seen of them helping out with construction and all, I'm thinking of it being sort-of like a massive poly relationship where they do their normal things, their trades and such, ...
Of course, I can see Warren throwing some curveballs right in the back of our heads with this at some point.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181466#Comment_181466 2009-08-08T11:18:33-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 VertigoJones http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4512 Perhaps you'd have understood me better if I'd said opium den, which is actually a bit closer to what I meant. Maybe Sirkka siphons off all that sex high. Theres something going on there, I feel it, ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181471#Comment_181471 2009-08-08T11:32:29-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 somnonaut http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3927 @DarkKnightJared: It certainly seems more like a huge poly relationship than anything else, especially a sex-cult. If she is redefining the human relationship, that means she has to strip away every ... slightly conservative society has been indoctrinated with. Most of this thread has been looking at it as "people who are with each other because they want to fuck each other" instead of "people who are with each other because they love and respect each other".

And I will end this with the disclaimer everyone has been adding: we really know nothing about it, this is just speculation.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181482#Comment_181482 2009-08-08T12:36:05-07:00 2009-08-08T12:37:16-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 Vertigo: Now that's an interesting idea, about her using their "sex energy". Interesting, but I don't think I buy it. I just don't think Sirkka's like that. In either case, crack house or ...
DarkKnight: I seem to remember Jack saying something about her spending "all day" in bed with her people. My weird conclusion that they mostly lay around has been dispelled by you good folks, and I'm sure that Jack was being hyperbolic, but I don't think they live normal lives and then go back to Sirkka at night. I think they're mostly...emergency troops. When bad stuff goes down, they get to work. But if they don't specifically need to do something, they just hang out. As Mr. Ellis said, though, we've seen "almost nothing." That comment leads me to believe that there's quite a bit more to see, that he's got a pretty good idea of what's going on there (I mean, he's spent time planning it out and it's not just a throwaway thing or a gimmick).

By the way, how cool is that? I speculate about something in a piece of art, and the friggin' artist tells me that it's wrong (I think). I wish I would have had that option when reading the Book of the New Sun.

Finally, as many have pointed out, they're probably not just fuckbuddies. She's trying to "redefine the human relationship," though we really don't know how yet. Though her referring to her people as "children" is a little odd, if she is in fact having sex with them. By the way, I have been assuming that all along, and only just now thought to question it. What if she's not having sex with them? What would that mean/

I'm spending a lot of time talking about this because the idea really interests me...I think that the stereotypes as to how humans should relate to each other in our society are a bit backwards, stupid, and often downright illogical. I'm quite curious as to where Ellis takes this.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181484#Comment_181484 2009-08-08T12:38:05-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 looneynerd http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5373 Is it also possible that they're a type of WC thinktank? They seem to have some of the most advanced tech in Whitechapel (the big honkin guns), and if I was spending my life just thinking to improve ... Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181488#Comment_181488 2009-08-08T12:46:22-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Pablo http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2035 yes. simply because sirkka is fucking hot. Basically, yeah. yes.
simply because sirkka is fucking hot.
Basically, yeah.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181493#Comment_181493 2009-08-08T12:59:40-07:00 2009-08-08T13:07:24-07:00 Fan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919 > I don't think they live normal lives and then go back to Sirkka at night At one point (I don't remember where) Sirkka says that it's too light to be awake: as if, whatever it is they do, they ... I don't think they live normal lives and then go back to Sirkka at night

At one point (I don't remember where) Sirkka says that it's too light to be awake: as if, whatever it is they do, they tend to do at night.

> What if she's not having sex with them? What would that mean

Jack once said that she was "training more slaves to to wank in front of her." That was a bit snarky, so no way to tell for certain whether he meant it literally or only metaphorically. I assume that the "slaves" part of it, at least, says more about him than about them.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181589#Comment_181589 2009-08-09T01:09:35-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 manikmoon http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2997 The Freakangels have an ability, a power if you like. Any power can be used for good or bad, electricity can cook you a meal and fry a man in a chair. The overpowering theme right now is the ...
Anyway, I'm running a temperture of gawdknowswhat..and I ramble....oink!]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181630#Comment_181630 2009-08-09T05:54:12-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Spiraltwist http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=426 @manikmoon just as the Amish, for example, shun modern technology Depends how the technology works (and which group they belong too).
just as the Amish, for example, shun modern technology

Depends how the technology works (and which group they belong too).]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181652#Comment_181652 2009-08-09T07:11:24-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 mister hex http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4411 Sirkka's "redefining human relationships". She's obviously done a bit of monkeying with people's heads, vis a vis the rape camp survivors. What don't you want in a partner? Guilt. ...
What don't you want in a partner? Guilt. Shame. Maybe they've been with like A LOT of people. Nothing you can do about that. But maybe if they can do tricks, yeah? They're good at it, they bring a tenderness to the Act That Can Be Brutal But Doesn't Have To Be. They're Sexual Ambassadors, Sirkka's Harem.

Obviously, Very Much Different from Mark's Private Army. Or Something.

Gonna be an interesting trial.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181659#Comment_181659 2009-08-09T07:43:46-07:00 2009-08-09T08:12:25-07:00 Fan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919 [self-edited: removed because it was too off-topic] Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181706#Comment_181706 2009-08-09T11:59:21-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 McLean http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3823 As a "knowledge worker" (i.e. I work in an office at a mostly sedetary job) I recently took stock of any skills I might have that could be useful in an "end of civilization as we know ...
1) Run very fast for a few hundred yards, or several miles at a good clip (yah, gym)
2) Shoot a firearm reasonably well and am familiar enough with safety not to kill myself or anyone else
3) fish
4) drive a car and a boat
5) Read a map

And...that's about it. Pretty sad considering most of these will only help survive the first few hours (or days if your lucky) of any cataclysmic scenario. Put that together with some generally misanthropic tendencies and I'm thinking I'm with Jack. On a different boat, naturally.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181716#Comment_181716 2009-08-09T12:51:34-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 bettareckognize http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7014 Sirkka's "redefining human relationships". She's obviously done a bit of monkeying with people's heads, vis a vis the rape camp survivors. I hadn't really thought about that. Sirkka ... Sirkka's "redefining human relationships". She's obviously done a bit of monkeying with people's heads, vis a vis the rape camp survivors.

I hadn't really thought about that. Sirkka seems to believe it's okay to mess with people's heads to remove trauma. The rape camp survivors makes sense, even if I still think it's wrong (wouldn't have been if they'd been asked and consented). But who knows what the rest of the Whitechapel residents have been through. Probably all of them have horrible memories. To what extent does she think it's okay to "comfort" people by removing bad memories? We've seen absolutely no indication that she's done this, and the other 'angels would almost certainly know and object. Almost certainly. But it's fun to think about.

It seems to me that they can tell when another is using a significant amount of power, i.e. enough to totally control someone, but this isn't always the case. Mark somehow managed to take control of 50 people pretty completely (that's the impression that I got) without them being fully aware of it. Also, at least one angel, Kait, has the ability to screen herself from the others.

I wonder if any of the members of her "harem" are survivors of the rape camp?]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181780#Comment_181780 2009-08-09T19:31:05-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 texture http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1472 I think they're mostly...emergency troops Sex ninjas. Sex ninjas with a huge massive gun. Yeah. I think they're mostly...emergency troops

Sex ninjas. Sex ninjas with a huge massive gun. Yeah.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=181803#Comment_181803 2009-08-09T22:15:52-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Foley http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5325 I wouldn't. Once a philosopher, twice a pervert. Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=182109#Comment_182109 2009-08-11T02:51:31-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 atavistian http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6519 Sirkka's people work in Whitechapel. We saw 'em on the big friggin gun when Whitechapel was under attack, we saw them help with the intake of the new people, I think it's fair to assume that they ...
That being said: I don't think I'd join her (in the unlikely event that I had the chance). I'm more of a hands-on, antisocial kind of guy that would prefer to spend much more time out scavenging or working a protective detail than in bed. I'm much better at protecting the world than interacting with it.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=182118#Comment_182118 2009-08-11T03:19:24-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Audley Strange http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4475 Personally I'd get out of Whitechapel as quite as possible. Sirkka and her psychic Bonobo cult scare the crap out of me. Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=182164#Comment_182164 2009-08-11T08:01:52-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Asmodai64 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7129 at the end of the world - there are no longer any more reasons to cling to obsolete points of view. many of the 'points of views' are diluted by the cultural hypocrisy created by a capitalistic ...
many of the 'points of views' are diluted by the cultural hypocrisy created by a capitalistic society that doesn't advocate personal liberation outside of buying as much as a credit card can offer in terms of credit card limits. many people are consumed by status, and therefore are willing to sacrifice personal liberation in order to keep up with the push and the shovings to be part of the 'top dogs' ' clliques and sub-culture of addictive personalities.

but at the end of the world - there are no longer any more reasons to cling to such obsolete points of view.

when i look at sirkka's harem, i consider her role as high priestess as highly important and very necessary towards the 'survivors' of the flooding. sensuality in modern-day mainstream cultures remains an ongoing controversey because of the mistrust that many individuals cling to. an rather odd choice as many people find getting wasted on cheap booze and diminishing drugs to be 'acceptable' but to become involved in a 'harem' or a cult-of-sensuality to be 'wrong' and 'evi', and 'taboo', and 'perverted' and 'gross'. this reflects cultural conditioning based upon the capitalistic approach that owning property must bring prosperity and 'success' to the individual (although the 'haves' are able to indulge in their deepest desires that 'money can buy' but to pursue this as a 'commoner' means an individual has violated strong dogmatic overtones as established by the rules of capitalism).

main-stream cultures advocate drug therapy for problems that afflicts an individual; most therapies utilizes medication as a means of 'healing' while choosing to shun a more 'radical' approach to healing the individual's psyche by exploring aspects of sensuality. the most innate aspect of living, an individual's sensuality, goes overlooked in the effort to create a 'moral culture'. however in sirkka's temple of sensuality, we find a true religion that feeds the individual's well-being. unlike most dogmatic religions that seeks to condemn the senses of the individual as being 'evil' and 'wrong' (therefore condemning the individual...), sirkka's harem seeks to bring union to mind, flesh, and spirit in the face of the rules being oblivated by the flooding, and the re-birth of the individuals' psyche in the face of an apocalypse that has energized the individual's need to create an intergrated whole.

at the end of the world, one can recover their lost spark.]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=182179#Comment_182179 2009-08-11T09:15:35-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Mordachai http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7134 Asmodai64, excellent, provocative post. I wish I knew more folks who feel this way. Our sexuality, sensuality is so intertwined in our social / genetic need to fit in and acquiesce to the needs ...
I wish I knew more folks who feel this way. Our sexuality, sensuality is so intertwined in our social / genetic need to fit in and acquiesce to the needs of the community, which evolves in its own way, spawning such ultimately self-defeating institutions as religion. An expression of mystery and longing turned into a tool of fear and avarice by a few who claim to know more...

Too many still think that it makes sense for many to suffer for a few to thrive in ultimate luxury (because, well, you know, they're just better than everyone else).

So, me, it would all depend upon the details, but a highly sensual community that was in honest exploration of wholeness and self through communal healing while remaining in individual integrity... count me in. :)

That said, I have no examples to draw upon that might indicate such a thing is even possible. Maybe with someone like Sirkka, where we can invoke the super-human, and hence the super-humanity, but in the real world with as much baggage as everyone carries - I don't see it happening (with integrity).]]> Sirkka's "Harem:" Would You or Wouldn't You? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=6547&Focus=182321#Comment_182321 2009-08-11T20:19:03-07:00 2013-05-18T18:01:08-07:00 Oenone http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7137 I'd join it -- I don't think Sirkka's folks are JUST about sex. I think they're more reconstructing what it means to love and have family. She probably asks her followers to treat others with love ...