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  1.  (6547.1)
    I'm new here, and I did a search for any similar topic and couldn't find any. If this has already been gone over, feel free to send me an arse eel. I'll even pay the postage.

    Okay, kids. It's the end of the fucking world, and no reprieve is in sight. Assuming you're lucky enough to live in Whitechapel, you have a few options. A lot of folks seem to be learning trades or working in some way. Making bread, maybe even herding sheep or something, though that's not seen. Gotta make new clothes from something, though, huh? A small group of folks seem to be shacking up in Sirkka's place and...well, we don't really see what they do except for sleeping, but I assume that there's a bit of fucking going on (along with helping to man a huge-ass gun every now and again). And I'm also assuming that Sirkka's Freakangel package is capable of keeping any unwanted pregnancies from happening.

    Now, obviously, we don't know the selection process of who gets to lay around in bed with Sirkka all day. All the people there seem really attractive, and I know I wouldn't fall into that category, nor would most people. But let's assume you're given the option: you can lay around in bed all day with attractive people, eat well, and generally just hang out. I'm sure they do other stuff, but that seems to be the main focus of their lifestyle.

    The problem is, there's a whole community out there working their asses off just to survive. So do you learn a trade, till the fields or whatever, or just fuck all day?

    I'm really not sure what I'd do. My immediate response is, "to hell with that, I'm gonna work!"'s the end of the world. As far as you can tell, things aren't going to get any better. Just to have that physical comfort in such overwhelmingly horrible times must be a great relief. So I dunno.

    What about you guys?

    (this is, of course, assuming you don't know the true nature of the Freakangels, as only Alice seems to. So no "I'm not gonna let some psychic madam in MY head!")

    PS: how the hell do these people even get food if they just lay around all day? And electricity? In the last episode, Christmas lights or something like them are clearly shown draped over Sirkka's bed. What do they do to earn their keep? Just man the big gun? I suppose that sort of makes sense.
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2009 edited
    Here's the thing. Once again, we've really only seen a fairly small slice of life in Whitechapel and we shouldn't make assumptions based on what we've seen. That said, it probably makes more sense to consider Sirkka's place as more a temple than anything else. People come there to worship, to commune with their minds, bodies and souls. They come to be refreshed and renewed. And once they have been, they go back to their lives in the community.

    Just think of it as church - with lots of really hot but consensual sex.
  2.  (6547.3)
    Fuck no. I went to public school in the years right after all my teachers had watched people die of AIDS, so I was taught to have an almost instinctual fear of anything that might lead to venereal disease.
      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2009
    In a heart-beat.
  3.  (6547.5)
    This is, of course, entirely possible. We know very little of what really goes on in Whitechapel. Sirkka, however, refers to those folks as "my people." She speaks as though she is the leader of that group. I cannot remember where, exactly, but I seem to recall her saying that they'll do whatever she wants. And the general populace of Whitechapel do not seem to be Sirkka followers.

    Respectfully, as I can see where you're coming from, I don't really think it's like a temple. Or at least not a temple that just anyone can go to and leave when they want. More like a commune. As you said, this is totally speculation, but just because we don't know something doesn't mean we shouldn't try to come up with some possibilities, especially in fiction. I really do think that if it was like you said, a temple or church of some sort where people go to get a minute's reprieve from the horror that surrounds them, it've been mentioned. I'm honestly not in the mood to put fourth the effort to look for specific quotes and cite them, but when Luke and even Jack have talked about her "harem" (I hesitate to use that term without quotes indicating irony), it seems like a group of people who devote themselves to Sirkka and her teachings. I think that Sirkka sees herself as something of a guru. For example, after the refugees are adopted, she conducts a seminar to keep them from living in fear all the time. Admirable, but at the same time it would require her to put fourth ideas as to how to live in the relatively safe community that is Whitechapel. Control, certainly, though not intentionally malevolent. Hegemony? maybe. The Freakangels obviously believe that they should be in control, even if they don't like the idea. But I digress.

    When the attack happened, a bunch of Sirkka's followers jumped to action. They were trained, they knew what to do. I doubt that every Whitechapel resident knows how to prime said big-ass gun.

    All I'm saying is that I think it's more of a closed community. We haven't heard much about people saying, "Hey, it's friday, I'm gonna go to the weekly orgy at Sirkka's." I fully admit that I could be wrong, and wouldn't be at all surprised if I am. This is just the conclusion I've tentatively come to in light of the information that's been provided thus far.

    If Sirkka's place is as johnjones says, I'd spend at least a few nights a week there. A warm body next to your own does a lot to mitigate the horrors the of the world. But that's not how I see it.
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2009 edited
    Someone once said that Sirkka is trying to redefine human relationships. I don't know what that "new relationship" is, except that it's not something Jack wants.

    Asking whether you would want to be part of that may be akin to asking whether you enjoy psychotherapy.

    One of the oddest tings about it is how time-consuming it is.

    Also, asking this might be missing the point: I'm not saying that Sirkka is dehumanising her companions, but they might exist only as props which the author uses to illustrate Sirkka's character and interests (in a game of Dungeons and Dragons they're like "non-player characters": props or background with only very thinly-developed characters and motives).
  4.  (6547.7)

    This thread isn't quite as popular as I'd hoped it'd be when I posted it. I don't wanna be that guy who responds to every single post in the thread he started. But still, here I go.

    I wouldn't ever claim to be a Warren Ellis expert. As far as I can tell, though, while his feelings and themes are often similar, his works are quite diverse. If I know anything about Ellis, it's that his work has a major focus on the stuff going on in the background.

    Transmetropolitan, for example. The second epic-length comic I ever read all the way through (after Sandman). The stories themselves focus on Spider and his assistants, but a huge part of it is how the world around him reacts to his actions, and how he reacts to them. That was the whole point. He brought down the POTUS, for fuck's sake, with popular support. And he was just a journalist. These are lords of the apocalypse, as much as any of them would deny it to most people. And Sirkka is apparently some sort of sex cult leader. Not evil. She's not bad. But from what I've seen it's a sex cult.

    If I know Ellis' work, and I'm not saying that I do, Sirkka's little group will play a more important role than you believe.
  5.  (6547.8)
    "This is, of course, entirely possible. We know very little of what really goes on in Whitechapel. Sirkka, however, refers to those folks as "my people." She speaks as though she is the leader of that group. I cannot remember where, exactly, but I seem to recall her saying that they'll do whatever she wants. And the general populace of Whitechapel do not seem to be Sirkka followers."

    Yeah and if I recall correctly "whatever she wants" includes going out in work-gangs to repair the damage after the recent attack.

    So it's hardly cost-free.

    And presumably freak-magic takes care of the STD's and the unwanted pregnancies.
  6.  (6547.9)
    In a word, yes. I'm lazy and an unabashed hedonist.
    • CommentAuthormunin218
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2009
    Im assuming, especially with the "redefining human relationships" bit, its a lot more than simply a "sex cult".

    Relationships ceasing to be defined by the rigid standards of religion and old social mores.

    Interesting stuff.

    I think I may get where he's going with that....maybe.
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2009
    @looneynerd - I can't help but think "lazy" is not a trait that works in that situation.
  7.  (6547.12)
    But the Hedonism overrides. That. I can take brief periods of intense work if it means I get to lounge around all the time :P
  8.  (6547.13)
    Someone once said that Sirkka is trying to redefine human relationships.

    Maybe Sirrka is acting as a telepathic medium between partners? Perhaps she's thinking that the power that sex has over us can be overcome with the kind of power she has at hand. On a basic level, the primate strives for shelter, food and to reproduce. Being social creatures, add in clearly understood communication and things within that social group work quite nicely.

    If this is the case, Hell yes I'd join the harem. Life would be a lot easier without the sexual anxiety I have and I could concentrate clearly on other things when need arises.
  9.  (6547.14)
    simply because sirkka is fucking hot.
    and because i might even get a chance to see jack naked.. but i doubt i'd get to do anything more than that =(

    lol sry.. not answering this seriously.
    i suppose if it came down to it, i wouldn't because i hate lying around doing nothing. but i'd definitely sign up if there was a part time position xD
  10.  (6547.15)
    Personally, no. Strict Catholic upbringing (I'm recovering, thanks for asking!) and intimacy issues beyond the wildest dreams of analysts. Attractive, self possessed, sexually confident people like Sirkka make me run a mile. If I discovered that on top of all that she was psychic as well, I'd run another five :D
  11.  (6547.16)
    Why does it have to be an either/or proposition? I can't go be a productive citizen who bakes bread, or helps Caz install solar panels or whatever during the day, and then go back to Sirkka's love nest at night?
    This is just the conclusion I've tentatively come to in light of the information that's been provided thus far.
    I don't think you're properly considering the timeline of the information that's been provided so far. Volumes 1 and 2 take place during the span of one day, from early(ish) morning to sunset. In that time we only get one shot of Sirkka's harem, and that's in the morning. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that all Sirkka's people do is lay about having intensely mindblowing sex all day. If anything, Episode 50 Page 2 argues pretty distinctly against that.
  12.  (6547.17)

    You make a good point. However, I think that the day and change that we've seen in Whitechapel is supposed to be a microcosm of their daily reality as a whole. And as far as the episode and page you cited, all we see is Sirkka herself mentoring a group of people being integrated into Whitechapel, not having anything to do with the her followers. They might BECOME her followers, yes, but there's no indication that they will do that. I'm sure some small portion of the refugees will join her group.

    I will admit that I was wrong, and not as thoughtful as I should have been. "Sex cult" is a stupid term for what they do. Love cult, maybe. Even "cult" might be a bad word. We simply don't know enough about how one is admitted to her group and how, once admitted, one lives.

    Obviously, there are strings attached. Manning the big gun is the obvious part. As Kosmopolit pointed out, after the attack they went and helped clean up the damage. So there're responsibilities. if I was given the opportunity to work hard three quarters of my waking life, and cuddle and fuck the last quarter...well, sign me up.

    DavdLejeune: responding directly to you. You could very well be totally right. Based on what I've seen, thus far, however, I do not think that's how it works. Sirkka's people are Sirkka's people. She'll rent them out when times get hard, but most of the time they seem to be chilling at her place.

    But, like I and others have said, we've only seen a day and change. There could very well be a pretty huge paradigm shift in the near future, either of how they live or how we THINK they live. This is Warren Ellis we're talking about.
  13.  (6547.18)
    It seems to me that the harem acts as a deployable and versatile task force, showing up whenever helping hands, not otherwise occupied with water purification or sheep herding, are needed. Another idea may be that they are sex workers, acting much like like pre-christianity temple workers in that, on their nights out they "spread the love."

    And I'd join in a hot minute, or however long it took. :)
    • CommentAuthorE0157H7
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
    Honestly, in the world that Whitechapel takes place I would be too busy with cleaning my gun and scavenging things to barter to worry about orgies. Someone has to keep the nice orgy-enthusiast villagers and the busy psychic micro-gods in moldering cigarettes and ammunition, after all.
    • CommentAuthorPooka
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
    hmm...yes...yes I would join her family. from what I've read, I admire her I'm a girl who needs to feel safe, loved, and secure... Once upon a time I kinda attempted a similiar kind of comfy arrangment with my friends...but it doesn't work so well in the real world...

    but if I were flung into the freakangel world, and if they could heal my arthritis, well, I'd be greatful enough to go where ever the hell the angels wanted me to go. Orgy land or sewer treatment, yay me, I'm a team player! ;P
    actually...the job I'd love the most would be growing those strawberries with kirk/carl (dammit...i can't remember which does what)....