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      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.21)
    hmm let me think

    deal with starvation, disease, and looters in the flooded wasteland

    or spend all day and night in a near-constant fuck haze

    hmm

    hmm
  1.  (6547.22)
    But from what I've seen it's a sex cult.


    And, of course, you've seen almost nothing.
  2.  (6547.23)
    This ties in with Lukes queries as to why what he does is seen as so different to Sirkka. It has the initial appearance of being clean-cut, and then I contemplate the fact that we don't really see any of it. I think what goes on in there is possibly consensual, in the same way as living in a crackhouse is consensual, I'd be tempted to stand on the lines on this, despite how appealing the premise of possibly getting to lounge/fuck all day is. I'm quite certain theres a cost to it.
    • CommentAuthorE0157H7
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.24)
    I get the feeling that it's just a group of people that stuck to each other, with a charismatic patron saint at the center, to keep from the ragingly depressing reality of their shit world from making their psyches collapse. They were bored, aimless and lonely so they set up shop and have tons of sex with each other. I doubt that there's a cart being trundled around the streets while The Sex Brigade tosses new conscripts into it.
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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.25)
    I doubt that there's a cart being trundled around the streets while The Sex Brigade tosses new conscripts into it.


    "Bring out your Fuckables!"
    • CommentAuthorE0157H7
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.26)
    @mister hex - I was actually thinking of that Monty Python bit when I wrote that. Now I'm thinking that the idea of some sponge-headed sex freaks wandering around in their underwear with an ox-drawn cart ringing a bell is a genius one.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.27)
    I think it would look more like a conga line into Sirkka's chamber.

    I just redeemed "Hot Hot Hot" for you all from the wedding DJs. I am a culture hero. I am Prometheus to David Johannsen's flame.
  3.  (6547.28)
    And, of course, you've seen almost nothing.

    Urgh. I forgot that you're actually reading this stuff. That's a bit embarrassing. Though I suppose that commenting on any artist's work while he's looking in is a bit embarrassing. Still, never claimed to. I'm sure the social dynamic of Sirkka's group will become more clear as time goes on. Just speculating on what you've given us.

    This ties in with Lukes queries as to why what he does is seen as so different to Sirkka. It has the initial appearance of being clean-cut, and then I contemplate the fact that we don't really see any of it. I think what goes on in there is possibly consensual, in the same way as living in a crackhouse is consensual, I'd be tempted to stand on the lines on this, despite how appealing the premise of possibly getting to lounge/fuck all day is. I'm quite certain theres a cost to it.

    It's seen differently because it is different. Luke raped that girl, plain and simple. Even if she doesn't remember, even if there are absolutely no physical traces, he raped her. Sirkka, on the other hand, took away those horrible memories without the girl's consent. Which was also wrong. But they're not on the same level.

    As far as the "crack house" reference goes...I doubt Sirkka'd allow some crazy sex addict to live with her. It'd disrupt the harmony she's trying to achieve. These seem to be people who want to be there and aren't forced by either her or their own urges. Though again, of course, this is just speculation (do I have to keep saying that? Look, from now on, EVERYTHING I say is speculation)
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      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.29)
    Considering what we've seen of them helping out with construction and all, I'm thinking of it being sort-of like a massive poly relationship where they do their normal things, their trades and such, but live together and share the same bed at the end of the night. I think I could do that.

    Of course, I can see Warren throwing some curveballs right in the back of our heads with this at some point.
  4.  (6547.30)
    Perhaps you'd have understood me better if I'd said opium den, which is actually a bit closer to what I meant. Maybe Sirkka siphons off all that sex high. Theres something going on there, I feel it, deep in my waters. Or something.
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      CommentAuthorsomnonaut
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.31)
    @DarkKnightJared: It certainly seems more like a huge poly relationship than anything else, especially a sex-cult. If she is redefining the human relationship, that means she has to strip away every miniscule monogamous tendency that even slightly conservative society has been indoctrinated with. Most of this thread has been looking at it as "people who are with each other because they want to fuck each other" instead of "people who are with each other because they love and respect each other".

    And I will end this with the disclaimer everyone has been adding: we really know nothing about it, this is just speculation.
  5.  (6547.32)
    Vertigo: Now that's an interesting idea, about her using their "sex energy". Interesting, but I don't think I buy it. I just don't think Sirkka's like that. In either case, crack house or opium den, there's a negative connotation in that it is ultimately harmful to the users, and these folks seem to be living a very good life.

    DarkKnight: I seem to remember Jack saying something about her spending "all day" in bed with her people. My weird conclusion that they mostly lay around has been dispelled by you good folks, and I'm sure that Jack was being hyperbolic, but I don't think they live normal lives and then go back to Sirkka at night. I think they're mostly...emergency troops. When bad stuff goes down, they get to work. But if they don't specifically need to do something, they just hang out. As Mr. Ellis said, though, we've seen "almost nothing." That comment leads me to believe that there's quite a bit more to see, that he's got a pretty good idea of what's going on there (I mean, he's spent time planning it out and it's not just a throwaway thing or a gimmick).

    By the way, how cool is that? I speculate about something in a piece of art, and the friggin' artist tells me that it's wrong (I think). I wish I would have had that option when reading the Book of the New Sun.

    Finally, as many have pointed out, they're probably not just fuckbuddies. She's trying to "redefine the human relationship," though we really don't know how yet. Though her referring to her people as "children" is a little odd, if she is in fact having sex with them. By the way, I have been assuming that all along, and only just now thought to question it. What if she's not having sex with them? What would that mean/

    I'm spending a lot of time talking about this because the idea really interests me...I think that the stereotypes as to how humans should relate to each other in our society are a bit backwards, stupid, and often downright illogical. I'm quite curious as to where Ellis takes this.
  6.  (6547.33)
    Is it also possible that they're a type of WC thinktank? They seem to have some of the most advanced tech in Whitechapel (the big honkin guns), and if I was spending my life just thinking to improve things I'd want to just lay around all day while doing it.
    • CommentAuthorPablo
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009
     (6547.34)
    yes.
    simply because sirkka is fucking hot.

    Basically, yeah.
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2009 edited
     (6547.35)
    > I don't think they live normal lives and then go back to Sirkka at night

    At one point (I don't remember where) Sirkka says that it's too light to be awake: as if, whatever it is they do, they tend to do at night.

    > What if she's not having sex with them? What would that mean

    Jack once said that she was "training more slaves to to wank in front of her." That was a bit snarky, so no way to tell for certain whether he meant it literally or only metaphorically. I assume that the "slaves" part of it, at least, says more about him than about them.
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      CommentAuthormanikmoon
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009
     (6547.36)
    The Freakangels have an ability, a power if you like. Any power can be used for good or bad, electricity can cook you a meal and fry a man in a chair. The overpowering theme right now is the Sirkka/Luke thing, who is right or wrong. A lot of folk would object to Sirkka's use of her ablity, just as the Amish, for example, shun modern technology (and in essence..are/were they wrong?). I have an idea that this is the crux of the storyline, 'normal' life continues in Whitechapel as we have seen in glimpses of projects going on in the area, but these aint the meat and potatoes of the story. Sirkka believes, I think, that she can save the survivors by reshaping their ideas by for example,'eradicating' possessiveness, the primal start of such being on a relationship level, I think similarities can be made with most religions/cults - many started with no intention of ill-will - initially.

    Anyway, I'm running a temperture of gawdknowswhat..and I ramble....oink!
  7.  (6547.37)
    @manikmoon
    just as the Amish, for example, shun modern technology

    Depends how the technology works (and which group they belong too).
    •  
      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009
     (6547.38)
    Sirkka's "redefining human relationships". She's obviously done a bit of monkeying with people's heads, vis a vis the rape camp survivors.

    What don't you want in a partner? Guilt. Shame. Maybe they've been with like A LOT of people. Nothing you can do about that. But maybe if they can do tricks, yeah? They're good at it, they bring a tenderness to the Act That Can Be Brutal But Doesn't Have To Be. They're Sexual Ambassadors, Sirkka's Harem.

    Obviously, Very Much Different from Mark's Private Army. Or Something.

    Gonna be an interesting trial.
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009 edited
     (6547.39)
    [self-edited: removed because it was too off-topic]
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      CommentAuthorMcLean
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009
     (6547.40)
    As a "knowledge worker" (i.e. I work in an office at a mostly sedetary job) I recently took stock of any skills I might have that could be useful in an "end of civilization as we know it" scenario and, probably not surprising, I didn't come up with much. I can:

    1) Run very fast for a few hundred yards, or several miles at a good clip (yah, gym)
    2) Shoot a firearm reasonably well and am familiar enough with safety not to kill myself or anyone else
    3) fish
    4) drive a car and a boat
    5) Read a map

    And...that's about it. Pretty sad considering most of these will only help survive the first few hours (or days if your lucky) of any cataclysmic scenario. Put that together with some generally misanthropic tendencies and I'm thinking I'm with Jack. On a different boat, naturally.