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I can't shake the idea that Luke's in league with Mark. He certainly hasn't been given any reason not to be, that's damn sure.
Not true. Luke is apparently less than pleased about Mark's actions involving Alice when we first meet him. Also, Kirk remembered Luke's attitude when Mark enslaved all those people. -
@johnjones - Except that since then he's been using a very similar ( if not identical ) practice as the one which got Mark into trouble, hasn't he? He's also promised to kill most of them at some point, and has been physically assaulted by most of them - even when he's tried to help.
I'm not entirely convinced that he's in league with Mark, no. But I'm not entirely convinced that he's not, either... -
- CommentAuthorMasterful Eyes
- CommentTimeSep 5th 2009
Maybe he's more influenced by Mark. I mean if Arkady and Mark were the only ones who have been able to push themselves out of the limits. Is it possible that Mark can watch everything the Angels do through another Angel? Such as Luke. I mean Luke seems like the most mentally weak, he's stressed, homeless, etc. He be perfect for someone like Mark to screw his thinking up and be able to control him in a way. -
@Masterful Eyes - I'd considered that as a possibility, actually.
In the end though, he strikes me as too egotistical and cocksure to fall into that. Frustrated that his awesomeness isn't recognized? Sure. Worried that he needs a pair of pants? No. If he feels the need for something like that, he'll just fucking take it.
In fact, the more I think about it and reflect, the easier it is for me to believe him getting his face mashed/legs shot. He's so much into his own godhead he doesn't believe anyone would dare to strike out at him. ( For some reason suddenly, I'm picturing him as the anti-Jack... )
If anything, I'd bet he's hoping the conflict allows him the opportunity to make his own bid for dominance. I wouldn't even be surprised if his skill at doing the same thing Mark does is pivotal in the eventual ( if any ) defense of Whitechapel. -
I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.I've got a really sly feeling that there's more going to between Luke and Arkady than meets the eye. Could it be possible that they have a history, pre-Kadys overdose, back when they had the most in common and were both genuinely interested in exploring 'the package'? I wouldn't be even remotely shocked to find out they were a couple once upon a time - it explains the antagonistic relationship between the two and why Kady remembers to keep an eye on him, when she's feeling particularly lucid. Also, have you noticed that people with metal defects in film/tv/comics are always portrayed as quirkly and lovable, like a damn Ellen Page protagonist. I'm just saying that is pisses me off whenever I seriously contemplate it. Madness and imbalance is always conveyed as 'sexy' and 'interesting' when really it is none of those things. Or as Kirk Lazarus says in Tropic Thunder, 'You don't go full retard'.
@ Gekko - Hot rabbit? I was like darling, wtf? Ah, how slang is so often lost in translation.
@ Trini - You don't need luck, just find someone attractive whos reading a thick dusty book on art history/ psychology/ the rime of the ancient mariner, and amble over and say 'Hey, hope you don't mind, I'm looking for something new to read, is that book any good?' How lonely, bored, and desperate for human companionship and external validation will determine their reaction. Sometimes they'll be really cold and dismissive, sometimes you can walk with a number and a date within two minutes. Just practice, practice, practice. Or go over and say 'Have you ever heard of Warren Ellis' and Paul Duffields comic book, Freakangels 'cos it's fucking awesome, look here's a copy I bought ages ago, I'd let you touch it but you haven't been to the mikveh yet.' Pure instant *win* -
I've got a really sly feeling that there's more going to between Luke and Arkady than meets the eye. Could it be possible that they have a history, pre-Kadys overdose, back when they had the most in common and were both genuinely interested in exploring 'the package'? I wouldn't be even remotely shocked to find out they were a couple once upon a time - it explains the antagonistic relationship between the two and why Kady remembers to keep an eye on him, when she's feeling particularly lucid.
In the one flashback we've seen (the one where Arkady has hair), she comes off as angry, cold, arrogant and scary. She's pretty obviously taking Luke's "We have power. We should Do Something about these people hunting us" and putting it into a concrete, real-world form. I get the feeling that Luke's always been something of a gadfly and pariah, the chosen Devil's Advocate. Arkady, on the other hand, seemed more like a force, a leader. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that she and Mark were the "heads" of the 'angels back in the day. -
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CommentAuthormister hex
- CommentTimeSep 7th 2009
@johnjones - ... which would go a bit to explaining their current directionless-ness. Sure, they all have jobs now but they're succeeding themselves to death. Grow, expand, develop or just wither and wallow and then finally run away again. They haven't done that. Taking in the refugees was one step in them Growing (The Fuck) Up. NOW what? Plus, the paranoia about Mark's guerilla tactics (WHICH NOT ALL OF THEM KNOW ABOUT. Or do they? Wasn't the (mortar-aborted) meeting in the FreakCave supposed to be about Mark, Alice, wtf? They're all linked but they can shield. Did they know about Luke's previous rape attempt (and 'Kady stopping it) or is this all going to come out at the trial? Will there be a trial? (Regardless, Kirk and Karl have doubts about Mark being dead. So does Kait.)
As an aside, is the 'K' sound part of the package? Mark, Luke, Miki, Jack, Sirkka (two 'k's), Arkady, Caz (no 'k'), Connor, (no 'k') Kait, Kirk, Karl, KK (nothing BUT 'k's). This means something, beyond simple nomenclature. (I could be wrong. And most likely am.) Does it matter where in your name the 'k' is? (My brother has a bizarre theory that if you have an 'R' in your name, the law doesn't apply to you. Jokingly, like. It's how he got away with appalling driving in front of his kids. Long story.)
It's more than simple nomenclature, in my opinion. -
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I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.@ johnjones - Can you link to that flashback please? I actually can't even remember it, appalling I know.
@ mister hex - I think the letter K isn't so important as the hard 'K' sounds, like 'Catherine' or 'Calisto'. They could both have been FAs. This came up about 30 episodes ago when I rattled Warrens chain by implying he was ripping off Gaiman (Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Despair, and Delirium). I'd have to disagree with you though - I don't think the K sound has any special importance, it's just a little writers flourish like giving them all purple eyes. -
@Dee
here's the flashback
@Mister Hex
I don't think that they're so directionless right now. Before, when Mark was still with them, and Arkady was all hairy, they were being hunted. Their goal was to not die. Not be captured or killed. And now, they're not being hunted anymore, so now, they can stop concentrating on not dying, and start living. You have to build from the bottom up. Get people. Teach them that the FAs run the show. Give people a little security. Build your society. And deal with shit as it comes along.
I don't think you can say they're directionless right now, because we've only seen a couple days of their lives.
Also, they've got chickens now, which is a step away from succeeding to death ;) -
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CommentAuthorlaurahulett
- CommentTimeSep 7th 2009
shame on the others for not contemplating or testing the extent of their powers, in that sense i agree with luke. everyone should think about the possibilities for their powers and especially what they are capable of.
however, experimenting with their powers to what end? to control everything, from weather to people? no thank you.
the more i read freakangels, the more i enjoy how the characters are so realistic in their thinking and their moral range. that they aren't superheros, they are people like you and me in situations that demand they act bigger than what they are. -
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CommentAuthormister hex
- CommentTimeSep 7th 2009
@ diello - how could I forget about the chikkenz? From them, you get eggs. And also delicious chicken. -
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Somehow I don't remember that flashback at all...I think I might have somehow skipped it, though no idea how. At any rate, I don't think Arkady comes off as arrogant or cold; she's not agreeing with Luke. But, she is acknowledging the strength of their power. But I don't think she thinks or works like Luke does at all.
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Hmmm trying to dip into the discussion (since there are 3.5 days to wait until the next episode).
@Mister Hex- I noticed the K- theme too. I don't know if there is a reason or not (as a writer, I'm all about names, personally, I pick a lot of D's. Perhaps there was a lot of K's on the mind at the time.) Arkady, Sirkka and KK's name are ones I've never heard of (naturally, KK's), but all interesting nonetheless.
The Chikkens..lol...I was in Chick-fla-a today (they have the best chicken sandwiches..btw) thinking about their "Eat mor Chikin" motto (that's how it spelled too) and how cool it would be to have a "No Chikkenz shirt.
Luke...I know he's not really a favorite, but I'm not counting him out and I don't think he will be offed no time soon. I kinda wonder how he managed to be friends with them at all, he seems barely tolerated. The other FreakAngels seem to have a system with each other, a job, a purpose. Luke's purpose seems to be, being gutter trash, they don't think about him until they have to think about him. I wouldn't particularly care how everyone felt about anything if I was treated like crap by everyone who came by (not saying that he doesn't deserve the treatment he gets, but it had to start somewhere). He looks good enough to talk his way into some panties (mines at least), it's a pity he chose to make someone do what he could have asked (unless he finds that demeaning of his power).
I just have theories because I don't really understand Luke, but I'm willing to follow his rabbit hole to see where it goes. He interests me and he's useful in his own ways (I agree that they could have been living better and doing better, that doesn't excuse his actions, but I understand that). I believe that Mark is useful also as a known unknown lurking out there. I don't think Mark is part of the current arc other than Luke possibly feeling a little resentful of Mark's ousting. I don't want to judge Mark because we have yet to see him, despite the charges against him. Maybe Mark is just a jerk. Luke? I'm sure there is more than that to him.
_Said flashback... Arkady did seem cold and clinical about the whole affair, but I don't know if she was agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, more like speculating about the power they have and what they could do with it.
Bumsticks is a funny little word (unheard of where I come from). I can't help but to love Kait, though I pity Phil and them when she finds them. -
@LBA (wrt Jeff Noon)
I have read most of his books and can recommend pretty much all that I've read. I would recommend Pixel Juice, just because it doesn't require much (if any) prior knowledge of the Vurt mythos, and because Noon handles the short story format very well. Sadly my copy was appropriated by an ex. -
- CommentAuthorNicodemus_Cain
- CommentTimeSep 8th 2009
Congrats on the 400 pages. This week's FA has been a lovely way to re-enter the internet after being at Dragon*Con all weekend. -
I love how these threads are just getting more and more wildly speculative as we pass the 400 page mark. Not often prone to such analysis myself, but it's fun to read you all's theories. Personally, this week was another tension-building art explosion for me. Paul, your panel layouts are absolutely awe-inspiring lately. You're hitting every beat. And yes, definitely more solidity in the later work. Plus the colouring is just absolutely gorgeous. I could look at this week's p5 all day, just for the pale shimmer of Kait's special Super Detective Eye.
Let it rain! -
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CommentAuthormister hex
- CommentTimeSep 8th 2009
@ texture - the speculation's been flying thick and fast for a while now. It's part of the fun, being wrong. ANALYSIS is what I value about these threads. Johnjones, among others. It's like talking about Coronation Street with other fans. (I once had a pleasant chat with a man in the bank about Coronation Street. The teller asked me who my weekend was and I said "Man! Danny Baldwin died!" and the guy at the next teller went "Did you SEE that? Ohmygod!" and we had a five-minute discussion about it. )
But yes, analysis. As it becomes more and more popular (BEST WEBCOMIC is a needed category at the HARVEY'S & EISNER'S & all other such awards, if it isn't already. FA gets my vote.), and more people come tripping through this site, it's up to us to helpfully point them in the right direction, decorum-wise and such-like. -
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Oh, dont get me wrong, I love the analysis! It's a sure sign that the work is well-loved. I lap it up, I just don't tend to think like that myself very often... but please, everybody, keep speculating!!
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It's interesting, really, how much speculation this story invites.
I still think this is the best told story Warren has written yet. A big fat onion of a story, with layers between layers between layers all slowly being peeled back, at times revealing and at other times obscuring the overall whole of the thing. There's so much we know, and the more we discover the more we find we still have yet left to discover.
And the characters are such fully developed and realized personalities, and continue to grow and change and surprise us in truly organic and believable ways. We've been shocked and delighted and roused and let down by them. The more we get to know them the more we find there is to learn about them, and the more we want to learn about them.
And that's what keeps us all guessing, and more importantly, coming back week after week. It invites speculation even as it defies it.
For all the guessing, we have no idea what's going to come next, and that's just as it should be. That's the mark of a superior piece of fiction. -
Yay I've caught up! With the darkness and advancing water the tension is really getting amped up. I'm so glad Kait is fearless about her job. I'll hang back and be scared for her. I'm nervous about Luke. Nervous that he's playing for time, is working a gambit that will get him free and hurt or kill another 'Angel. Then again he's maintained the role of a dumb troll, powerful but not creative. Still.