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    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2008
     (687.41)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I think Hickman was mostly being hyperbolic and doesn't actually believe that <em>There Will be Blood</em> was a waste of his hard earned $$$ and time.

    I haven't seen it, but if it's simply an examination of the nature of greed, well, <em>No Country for Old Men</em> dealt with a hell of a lot more. Not that I'll enter <em>There Will be Blood</em> with any preconceptions once I get to see it.
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      CommentAuthorCyman
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2008
     (687.42)
    Haha, Allan's right. The milk drinking in No Country is comparable in greatness to TWBB.
    SPOILERS!
    I was chatting with my Shakespeare class about new media trying to humanize evil (NCOM, TWBB, Margot At The Wedding) and we decided that the NCOM has (Aside from Ed Tom Bell) mostly flat characters. Josh Brolin is evil because his actions are all governed by greed, and Chiguhr is evil because he has no regard for human life. Hence the coins: He doesn't even care if they live or die, you decide heads or tails. Means nothing too him, but there's something about it he enjoys. Anyway, Plainview is a different story altogether. It's unclear what governs his evil (much like Iago), but there's certainly more to him than greed or apathy. A case could be made for wrath, I'd say... never sloth, or envy, maybe gluttony... but certainly the character has extreme depth and as a villain, that makes him more evil than anyone in NCOM.
  1.  (687.43)
    who all has read the book of "no country for old men"? i haven't read "oil!" but i will say that "no country..." is one of the best book adaptations i have ever seen. seriously, what a perfect pairing...the book reads like a coen brothers movie.
    there IS a conversation in the book that i really missed in the movie, though...maybe it didn't need to be in there, but...
    (i don't know how to do the "SPOILER" hide thing, so don't read ahead if you haven't seen the movie...in fact, if you haven't seen one of these two movies, why are you even reading this topic??? what is your problem??? go see the movies.)
    SPOILER:
    when chigurh kills norma jean in the movie, all we hear him say is something roughly like, 'i got here the same way this coin did.' while this may be enough to get his personal philosophy across, and the dramatic move to eliminate the actual violence from this scene was an inspired choice (cutting to chigurh leaving the house), the conversation the two of them have in the book after the aforementioned line is pretty incredible...if you haven't read it, i highly recommend it. chigurh doesn't seem as randomly crazy in the book as he does in the movie--even though he was amazing in the movie because of bardem's performance, his character is more fleshed out in the book.

    seriously, though...these two movies + children of men are the best movies in at least a decade, in my opinion...
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      CommentAuthorCyman
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2008
     (687.44)
    You need to see the German film from 2006 "Lives Of Others", but I'll agree they're three great movies. You can probably tell I haven't read the book based on my incorrect spelling of Chigurh's name. That would probably explain my limited insight into his apparent lack of humanity. SPOILER: Even when she's completely sweet and innocent, he cares more about getting blood on his boots. I don't know if that counts as a spoiler or not, but seriously Warren leave your computer right now and go watch this movie.
  2.  (687.45)
    @Cyman: If it's so gd obvs, just out and tell me about what makes Plainview more than just a dick who pushes everyone away... which scene in that movie established something else about the guy? One of the parts where he pushed his son away? The parts where he was a dick to that preacher? The part where he murders his fake brother? Alls I see is a Yosemite Sam boogeyman for ppl who just realized greed is ruining the USA like 1 year ago. new jack libs. hur hur on that shakespeare quip, too, homey. I'm on a first name basis with Papa but I don't know Shakespeare, sure.

    @Allan: <em>some of the best pitch black humor ever conceived of</em>?
    y0 for real? some the best EVER? have you met Chris Morris yet?
  3.  (687.46)
    Ohhh what a simple one - THERE WILL BE BLOOD. Duh :)
  4.  (687.47)
    If it's so gd obvs, just out and tell me about what makes Plainview more than just a dick who pushes everyone away...

    The one that occurs to me -- and there are several -- is that hideous extended moment where

    he realises his "brother" is a fake. You can see the bottom drop out of Plainview's stomach, see his heart break, see him almost lose it.


    It was hard to miss, I thought.
  5.  (687.48)
    The one that occurs to me...


    Bingo. That's the one that stood out the most to me.
    That and the mud-wrestle with the preacher which was initially hilarious and then edging towards unnerving when you realize just how on the verge Plainview is at times.
    •  
      CommentAuthorCyman
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2008
     (687.49)
    goodwill I think the point has been made if you're willing to see it. No sense arguing about it.
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      CommentAuthorCyman
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2008
     (687.50)
    DO NOT READ AHEAD IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN NO COUNTRY
    I think what makes No Country comparable to TWBB is that it shows how we're to deal with evil. Tommy Lee Jones has some really interesting things to say about his character in an interview in my paper that I can't find online (Feb. 5th issue of "Star Watch"). Basically he says
    his character is feeling overwhelmed by this new breed of evil and he goes to his uncle who tells him that feeling overwhelmed is vanity, that evil doesn't change, and that you do not live in the center of the universe. No matter how overwhelmed you feel, it's still not about you. It's the same old deal. Tommy Lee Jones read the book, and says it's very important that people see this movie or read the book or something. Here, I'll type out his quote about the final scene. Seriously this is extreme spoilers, don't read ahead if you haven't seen the movie (for your sake).
    Tommy Lee Jones: "Like all considerations of Cormac, the questions are more important than the answers. The question that arises there [in the final scene] is that wonderful dream of riding ahead and reuniting with your father in the warm fireplace in the cold, in the dark hostile country. And if it is a dream, does the dream have any efficacy at all? If you wake up from a dream, have you woken up from reality? So these get to be pretty sophisticated questions and I really appreciate the Coen Brothers' careful reading of Cormac's moral thinking. Finally we're left with really good questions which are better than simple answers."
    It's pretty weighty topic for discussion, but I just have to say I think TWBB's two main characters are more evil than Chigurh or Brolin's character (who I read more like Camus's "The Outsider" than as a manifestation of evil or greed), but what makes No Country For Old Men so great is that third character that just doesn't exist in TWBB. He represents justice and morality in the face of horrible, horrible evil, and how can we as just, moral beings exist in a place where there is just seemingly no place for Justice or Morality? Hence the title.
    I've changed my mind again. I think No Country For Old Men is the best movie of the year for sure. Final answer. Unless someone can point out how morality is represented in There Will Be Blood?
  6.  (687.51)
    Bored now.

    Also: this is how I drink your milkshake.