Whitechapel - Adapting comic art for the digital age 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195625#Comment_195625 2009-10-18T15:41:00-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 arvandor http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1578 As online comics become more popular and prevalent (as I'm sure they will), how should artists and writers adapt. I believe they really should think about adapting to suit the new medium. The ...
I believe they really should think about adapting to suit the new medium. The current style is unsuitable. What looks good on a page doesn't look so good on a monitor, and is virtually unreadable on a handheld device.

The Freakangels style is a good start, but even this comic has too many splash pages to be fully suitable. There has to be more focus on individual panels in online comics.


What do you think? Should artists adapt their style for digital reading, or create for the page and leave computers as an afterthought? Should new and up and coming artists think about learning and developing new, digitally-focused, styles, for the new age and abandon the old way of making comics?]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195637#Comment_195637 2009-10-18T17:13:06-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2 The Freakangels style is a good start, but even this comic has too many splash pages to be fully suitable. There has to be more focus on individual panels in online comics. You're advocating the ... The Freakangels style is a good start, but even this comic has too many splash pages to be fully suitable. There has to be more focus on individual panels in online comics.

You're advocating the single-panel cartoon as opposed to narrative flow, then.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195640#Comment_195640 2009-10-18T17:31:09-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Will Ellwood http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2556 I can't remember the URL but doesn't Diesel Sweeties have a mobile spin off now? And I think the Bunny website has been pretty heavily tinkered with so it can be looked at with a mobile browser. ...
There has to be more focus on individual panels in online comics.


Eh? The trend I've noticed is for web-comics to have a fixed number of panels per issue. Normally between three and five. Sometimes horizontal and sometimes vertical depending on the image size. I think this is a mostly solved problem.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195643#Comment_195643 2009-10-18T18:12:44-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 MrSmite http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3810 I believe there's a lot of room to experiment still. Right now one major issue is formatting, since print mediums are traditionally portrait and video is now firmly established as landscape. On ...
On the one hand, scrolling still engenders the traditional top-down viewing experience and can be quite effectively used to illustrate timing, pacing and anticipation, which could be less effective in other formats, even in print.
But I still wonder if one answer is for the more adventurous webcomics to abandon print entirely, and experiment as much as possible with the constraints and benefits of the digital medium. It's good to see that some have, and it's mostly a matter of just how out-there they want to get with their craft.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195646#Comment_195646 2009-10-18T18:26:51-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2 But I still wonder if one answer is for the more adventurous webcomics to abandon print entirely, and experiment as much as possible with the constraints and benefits of the digital medium. It's good ... But I still wonder if one answer is for the more adventurous webcomics to abandon print entirely, and experiment as much as possible with the constraints and benefits of the digital medium. It's good to see that some have

Yeah, this is hardly a new idea. A lot of people use "infinite canvas," and have been for eight years or more...]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195648#Comment_195648 2009-10-18T18:39:28-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Mark Seifert http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3 What do you think? Should artists adapt their style for digital reading, or create for the page and leave computers as an afterthought? Should new and up and coming artists think about learning and ... What do you think? Should artists adapt their style for digital reading, or create for the page and leave computers as an afterthought? Should new and up and coming artists think about learning and developing new, digitally-focused, styles, for the new age and abandon the old way of making comics?
I think an important issue here is that we don't know what all of these devices are going to look like yet. 6 months from now, there are going to be numerous book-sized tablet-style devices out there. If they catch on, the kind of panel-centric model you're suggesting (which is most useful on handhelds, I think) will be less compelling. And in a year, two years... who knows?

I do see what you're saying, in a sense -- comics formatted for print parse a bit differently when broken down and reformatted for the iphone/ipod (for example). Looking at that, it's tempting to start thinking single-panel-centric and building out from there as needed (as in, 4 ipod panels might make a printed page). But my sense of it is that people are going to want a comic that works on their ipod, their apple tablet, their laptop, and in a book -- and that pages are still going to be very important, whether for print or the screen.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195653#Comment_195653 2009-10-18T19:13:28-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 uwspub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6668 This is a very interesting discussion, I'm sure it could only happen on this thread. Glad I caught it. Underwater Samurai Studios makes comics specifically for the digital format. Oh, we'll go ...
Underwater Samurai Studios makes comics specifically for the digital format. Oh, we'll go to print eventually, but we figure it's easier to scale up to a full page than to scale down to a mobile device. SOLDIERS was made this way. We advocate the use of the Frame, which is a unit based on the 3x2 ratio of mobile devices vs the 6x10 of the printed page. This has grown to have much more of an impact that we had thought when we first started. The first issue is still pretty standard fair -- very similar to what you see in print -- but the next few issues are much different. You can do a lot more when what you see is strictly controlled by the creative team. We are very excited about it.

As for what the future screens/devices will look like -- no one knows for certain, but ergonomics dictate a certain predictable size and shape. The apple tablet is rumored to be a 7" diagonal screen -- much the same as the early netbooks. So is the Crunchpad and the Asus Tablet. The Kindle isn't much smaller. We did a lot of tests, and even when scaling up to a 9 inch screen the Frame held up much better among the test readers than the full page. Scrolling is unnecessary -- just go to the next screen. As processors and connection speeds become faster and faster, the screen change is almost instantaneous. We actually slowed it down so the reader could notice the subtle changes from screen to screen.

We have found no need to lose narrative flow. Far from it -- making comics this way is a lot more like film, actually.

SOLDIERS is up as a webcomic now, and our iphone app is imminent. Our model is much like the Freakangels model -- serialized for free on the web, monthly Kindle/iphone apps, print a trade when the story arc wraps.

From our experience, making comics for digital is a LOT different than making them for print. We learned a lot of lessons making the first issue of SOLDIERS and I'm sure the learning curve will continue as our different artists and writers continue to work in digital. Mr. Smite s right - until you make the plunge, you're not going to get it. I'm not exactly sure how we're going to translate everything from digital to print -- we'll figure it out -- but digital is a game changer.

We have learned that infinite canvas isn't that great. Interesting idea, problematic execution. Because digital is without limits, placing limits is a necessity. Force yourself to an issue "page" length, stay within the size ratio (2x3), write a complete script, plan your arcs. You need to set some type of common, standard reference for yourself, your art team, and your reader.

It's a grand adventure, that's for sure. But we felt going digital was really the best way for a small, indy publisher to compete.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195685#Comment_195685 2009-10-19T04:21:46-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Audley Strange http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4475 Technology should adapt comfortably to the wants of the user, however I'm unconvinced that handheld and electronic reading devices are anything more than gimmicky toys. After all a comic book or a ...
I won't be adapting my comic layout for my readers, if that means I lose them, fuck them, I'm not pandering to people justy so they can show off how useful their latest handheld twat machine is.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195692#Comment_195692 2009-10-19T05:33:48-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 gzapata http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4899 ^ I'm sure they thought the same thing about the "personal computer" Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195698#Comment_195698 2009-10-19T06:08:56-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Audley Strange http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4475 For a long long time "they" were right. But if a PC is like a Aeroplane, many of the new gadgets are akin to the C5 or Segway. Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195704#Comment_195704 2009-10-19T06:46:31-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 arvandor http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1578 I thought they were just gimmicks too, until I broke and actually bought an e-reader. I love this thing. There is no way I'm going back to paper and ink, now. I just wish I was able to read my ...
I love this thing. There is no way I'm going back to paper and ink, now. I just wish I was able to read my comics on it.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195714#Comment_195714 2009-10-19T07:29:26-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 gzapata http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4899 @Audley Strange- In the end you could be right, only time will tell. All I know is that there are many people who ARE comfortable with reading digital comics and I don't think it's wrong that there ...
@arvandor- Seems like that's what everyone says about them. I haven't tried one out myself but I have yet to hear anything bad about them from people I've met who have gotten one

I feel like in these types of debates I am in the middle. I started reading comics in both digital and physical formats. I feel very comfortable with both and have been waiting for companies like longbox, drivethrucomics and others to pop up and at least attempt to give me what I want. Anything to strengthen the comic industry and help the creators]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195720#Comment_195720 2009-10-19T08:10:16-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Audley Strange http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4475 @gzapata. Exactly. I recall on holiday earlier in the year someone was showing me his phone thing and he had "The Incredibles" stored on it and was enthusing about it. I was I must say ...
@arvandor. They are gimmicks. I don't even have a mobile. Most of my friends don't either but one of them goes through them like heroin and is constantly updating, showing me all his new apps etc etc, but all he ever uses it for is to text or to call. So what are you going to do if they support for them dwindles since you have already decided not to go back?]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195732#Comment_195732 2009-10-19T08:42:06-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Ryan C http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3942 I think half the fun of all this is waiting to see what artists do. Adaptation can vary and I hope the digital comic does not conform to one major style like the printed form has. I know some of ... Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195745#Comment_195745 2009-10-19T09:41:43-07:00 2009-10-19T13:19:32-07:00 Paul Duffield http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6 Personally, I think that distribution will ultimately come back to the familiar old format of the "page", regardless of whether that's e-paper or real paper. I think over the short term, ...
When it comes down to it though, every medium of presentation boils down to a rectangle within which your comic can be framed, and some form of interaction (clicking, scrolling, flipping a page, whatever) that moves the narrative along. The most successful pieces, as always, will be made by a mixture of good storytelling (in which both the art and text is integral, interdependent and free of redundancy) and high accessibility/readability.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195753#Comment_195753 2009-10-19T10:05:33-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 purly http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6839 This is like people who want to redefine the form of poetry. Sometimes it comes out great and sometime you just get teenagers who don't want to learn how to write poetry but still want to cry on ...
If you don't want to use comics as your medium, perhaps animation would be better. But I think a lot of people just like the format as it is, and would prefer that it remains the same.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195773#Comment_195773 2009-10-19T11:22:39-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 phorgan1 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5672 Digital, I prefer one frame/page in a wide aspect ratio. It's a bit annoying to go to a page, scroll down through the page to see all the panels, then go to the next page, et.al. two different kind ... very annoying. Of course it could be adapted differently for the two media, but that would be extra work.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195796#Comment_195796 2009-10-19T13:11:17-07:00 2009-10-19T13:12:37-07:00 Cameron C. http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4226 What do you think? Should artists adapt their style for digital reading, or create for the page and leave computers as an afterthought? Should new and up and coming artists think about learning and ... What do you think? Should artists adapt their style for digital reading, or create for the page and leave computers as an afterthought? Should new and up and coming artists think about learning and developing new, digitally-focused, styles, for the new age and abandon the old way of making comics?

Print comics will exist in one form or another and, believe it or not, there will be people still making comics exclusively in print (Just like there will undoubtedly be more people creating comics exclusively for handhelds/web/tablets). Therefore there won't really be an OLD WAY to make comics. New and existing comic creators will format there books for which ever way they want to distribute it and as time moves forward and we actually figure out how these devices will be able to present comics they will take that into account. Those that want to still have a print end goal will format and lay out their book with that in mind and will also be aware of how else they can distribute their books (Web/tablets might be alble to present their book in the intended way where as an iphone probably wouldnt - I trust them to understand already and pick the ways that tell the story how it needs to be told).

It's not really WEB VS PRINT or DIGITAL VS PRINT... it's DEVICES VS PRINT. Some devices are on prints side, though, and others while still not really against print don't work well with it. Comic creators, I'm sure, already understand this.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195881#Comment_195881 2009-10-19T21:35:27-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Pia Guerra http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5855 Came across this digital comic experiment that kinda blew my mind: About Digital Comics by Balak01 I like it because it's simple and dynamic without the passiveness of a reading 'motion comic'. You ... About Digital Comics by Balak01
I like it because it's simple and dynamic without the passiveness of a reading 'motion comic'. You control the progression just as you would reading a comic. My brain has been stewing over this format for a few months now. I may have been doing some tinkering...]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195885#Comment_195885 2009-10-19T22:15:39-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 uwspub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6668 Pia, We've been taking that little demo to heart over at Underwater Samurai for a few months now and have been incorporating it into our books. It takes some getting used to, but the results ...
We've been taking that little demo to heart over at Underwater Samurai for a few months now and have been incorporating it into our books. It takes some getting used to, but the results really set digital apart from print in a way that is still complimentary to the art of comics. Techniques like those are what I alluded to in my comments above. You should see the fight scene we have planned for the third issue of SOLDIERS!

By using the increased control over what the reader sees that digital allows, creators can dictate time and space to a much larger degree than they can in print. I think it's a pretty exciting time in comics right now thanks to the "outside the box" thinking that this new medium provides.

I'd love to see what you've come up with during your tinkering...

Rob]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195922#Comment_195922 2009-10-20T06:01:21-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 PatrickBrown http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1800 Digital technology does change how comic art can be presented. A lot of comic artists are still stuck in a style that was developed for letterpress printing - pure black line. If black line is your ...
But I can't be doing with all this nonsense about how the screen is landscape so the page can't be portrait, like it's so hard to turn the scroll wheel on your mouse. Anybody who's too lazy to scroll down a page and click a "next" button is also too lazy to read an online newpaper article or a thread on message board - basically, not a reader.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195948#Comment_195948 2009-10-20T10:45:14-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 tim.x13 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2370 I've been thinking about this concept for some time. I live in NY (Brooklyn) where space and cash are two things that aren't easy to come by. I can't afford (space-wise) to buy (money-wise) every ...
I've been keeping my eye out for an e-ink reader that can handle color, and possibly minimal DRM...as well as companies who are embracing the digital wave.

I don't see why the two formats can't be mutually existent. Paper will never go away. It's just too cheap and too easy to produce/buy. Unless, of course, e-readers become just as cheap and ubiquitous.

I've gone way off the track here, I fear. These devices change almost monthly, and I can't imagine why both the 'frame' format and the 'page' format can't both be used to great effect on any size device. The frame works well on smaller devices, but would look just as stunning on a larger device (tablet, ereader, kindle); like a series of splash pages. Very dynamic.

The full page may not work as well on a smaller screen, but as @PatrickBrown suggested, it's just a simple matter of scrolling. Or reformatting to the particular aspect ratio.

All this technology does is, really, put more tools and guidelines in the hands of artists. That's never a bad thing.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195949#Comment_195949 2009-10-20T10:52:49-07:00 2009-10-20T10:53:03-07:00 James Cunningham http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2925 My first response got eaten by rabid web rabbits (or maybe I got sidetracked by my sick cat and closed the window by mistake) so the short version- The big problem with formatting a digital comic ...
The big problem with formatting a digital comic is that there's so many screen formats out there, and it's not going to change any time soon. I read on a 16:9 monitor at home, but elsewhere it's good old reliable 3:4, and of course there's millions reading on their iPhone/Pod thingies. I like the About Digital Comics format, although I'd like to see a counter to let me know how long what I'm reading is going to be, and it could use the ability to bookmark as well. That specific example felt a little cramped to me, though, but making it bigger gets right back to the question of who's viewing it in what resolution.

Personal solution that won't work for everyone- I'll read online when it's the only choice, but I'd rather have a nice graphic novel. I'm one of the readers who reads Freakangels online every Friday and then runs right out and buys the graphic novels on day of release.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=195966#Comment_195966 2009-10-20T13:08:49-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Wakefield http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2658 Tough task for artists as well. Now they need to have some programming know-how and understand user interface design, as well as all the traditional fundamentals for creating a good comic ...
Another issue, as James Cunningham and Patrick Brown touched on, screen sizes and resolutions vary. If an artist draws a splash page that's meant to be viewed in its entirety, a low resolution that requires extensive use of a scrollbar undermines that work. It's not a matter of the reader's laziness, it's a matter of how the artist wants his or her work to be presented. He or she would have to cede a lot of that control.

Also, people process information differently on a large screen versus on a small handheld screen versus on the page. All of which affects the way the creator tells the story.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=196052#Comment_196052 2009-10-20T22:50:01-07:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 stsparky http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2311 I like how Nate Piekos does Atland - it's designed to be viewed onscreen and sold as a widescreen comic. When Larry Gonick's The Cartoon History of the Universe did a transition from print to ... Nate Piekos does Atland - it's designed to be viewed onscreen and sold as a widescreen comic.

When Larry Gonick's The Cartoon History of the Universe did a transition from print to digital for a game back in 1994, he readjusted his image to fit the screen in a similar fashion without losing the flow of the book's charm.

I'm investigating the idea of doing something similar with our chatty indy comic you've seen me promote.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201189#Comment_201189 2009-11-10T04:49:16-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Julian http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7660 Patrick, Scanning over a two page splash with your eyes and taking in the whole thing is a lot harder to do when you can't even get a good view of the full page. Format matters when you are ...
Scanning over a two page splash with your eyes and taking in the whole thing is a lot harder to do when you can't even get a good view of the full page. Format matters when you are writing with images.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201285#Comment_201285 2009-11-10T11:39:30-08:00 2009-11-10T21:56:14-08:00 TheDeeMan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6853 The thing about webcomics is that there is no "you have to do it this way or that". You can more easily experiment with webcomic format then you can with print. You have to find what works ...
Dee

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THE CONTINENTALS. Murder, mystery, intrigue, adventure--And steampunk!]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201437#Comment_201437 2009-11-10T19:43:13-08:00 2009-11-10T19:44:17-08:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 Ultimately, the major way to make money off webcomics is through printed volumes. And no one wants to read a printed volume that has the same image 14 times with different balloons because that's how ...
The real place, that we, as webcomics creators, need to push ourselves, is not down the road of flash gimmicks, motion comics, and voice over; but the same place any creator needs to- storytelling. If the storytelling isn't there in the writing and in the art, then it doesn't matter how many bells and whistles surround it, the comic will fail. The web and webcomics offer great differences, and -I think- advantages over storytelling in western print comics at the moment. These are the avenues that the webcomics community should be exploring, and these are avenues that the most successful webcomics creators have been in for a long time now.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201448#Comment_201448 2009-11-10T20:31:19-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 uwspub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6668 I completely agree that storytelling is the key to success. I'm not so sure about printed volumes. You have to have something to sell, but digital offers a lot these days -- iphone, Kindle, nook, ...
The key here, is to figure out your format and how to make the books to fit it. And there will be some compromises, and some hard decisions. With SOLDIERS, we're getting positive and negative views of the word balloons (as you say "same image 14 times with different balloons"). It works very well for a rapidly changing, very small screen. A larger screen? Not so much. And Kindle? It works, but not as well. And that's just dialog. How about action sequences? The scenes we're making for later issues are incredibly dynamic and transfer beautifully to the fast & small screen. But Kindle is slow and small -- the timing certainly has an impact on reader reception.

I'm beginning to think that a slightly smaller digital page may be best. Phoenix Requiem/Meek/Roza/etc operate on a (roughly) 500 pixel wide page about 800 pixels tall with oversized letters. It fits on the screen well, can be read inside of a .cbz or .pdf reader on most screens, and with the Infurious Media Reader App, transfers very well to the iphone. It's a little tight with Kindle -- but it fits and is legible. And, best of all, that format can go right to print in a Manga sized book.

I'm going to continue to make SOLDIERS as we are -- I want to play with the dynamic nature of the format -- but we're going to put a couple of books out in the "small page" format and see how we like it. I want to use SOLDIERS to push the edge of digital, but scaling it back up for print is going to require re-lettering and some additional artwork. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Rob]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201462#Comment_201462 2009-11-10T21:55:43-08:00 2009-11-10T21:56:35-08:00 TheDeeMan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6853 I get what you're saying, Rob. I just don't like all this iphone, kindle, crap. I know. You're saying what's the difference between that and webcomics on a computer? Basically I'm a print comics ...
I know. You're saying what's the difference between that and webcomics on a computer? Basically I'm a print comics guy. I use the web mostly as promotion for the eventual print volume. Because like Ethan said, the money in webcomics is in print volume. See Girl Genius as the perfect example. Started out as a print comic and failed, moved onto the web and became a huge it, sold it's print comics to it's online audience and their sales spiked.

Because the only people making money off of webcomics are the ones who already are like PvP, Penny Arcade, etc, etc. The rest of us have to find
a way beyond webcomics to make money from webcomics and that ultimately brings us back to print.

Dee

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THE CONTINENTALS. Murder, mystery, intrigue, adventure--And steampunk!]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201478#Comment_201478 2009-11-10T23:39:40-08:00 2009-11-10T23:57:54-08:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 I get what you're saying, Rob. I just don't like all this iphone, kindle, crap. nor do I, not that i think that they are bad in themselves, just limited. Only people who buy an iPhone can read ... I get what you're saying, Rob. I just don't like all this iphone, kindle, crap.

nor do I, not that i think that they are bad in themselves, just limited. Only people who buy an iPhone can read iPhone comics (or an ipod touch), only people who buy a kindle can read kindle comics. Any reader can buy a book. It's all about limits. It's not that I am a print comics guy in particular either, that is a limit as well. I want there to be as few limits as there can be on my work. Limits keep away large populations of readers and lead to pigeon holing. "Oh that's that iphone comic right?" "Oh that's that kindle comic?" - or that whatever comic. No, it's a comic. No motion, no voice acting. For me its all about taking hold of what publishing to web means in terms of advantages, working on my craft, making sure it can be translated into as many methods of delivery as possible, and avoiding gimmicks.

Before we, as a community, get ahead of ourselves trying to incorporate elements that may not suite the medium, that may change it into something less than comic, less than animation, I think we need to look at the basics of making a webcomic. Is the site easy to navigate? When I go to a new webcomic, if I cannot tell instantly and I mean fucking instantly how to navigate through the strip- I don't read any further. If i have to go to a menu screen in between every screen of art, I don't read any further. We don't want to make webcomics harder to read than books, we want them to be easier. And with a book I don't have to read the table of contents over again between every page.

Is the site well designed? HOT TIP: if you are not going to spring for a reader, and insist upon using a separate web page for every comic page then don't load that page with fucking banners and shit, then they all have to load every time. Simple is better. I personally don't use readers, because I never want anyone to have to download any new program to be able to read my books. Again trying to avoid limits. So we keep the layouts for the comics extremely simple, and legible. Too many comics have a ton of flashing shit all over the page surrounding the actual comic, it is distracting and it causes the site to bleed readers. Think about where the image will be on the screen when it loads I don't want to have to scroll just to see every page. t should be aligned with the top of the screen, if some extends below -that is fine- I will happily scroll to keep reading, but not to start. Remember that when a reader is going through the comic, they have to go through these steps every time they start a new page, and gets annoying quick.

These are the things we need to work on in order to make webcomics push through into the future. Anyway this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I just spend a lot of time and effort trying to make sure things are simple, accessible, and executed well, and nothing annoys me more than bad webcomics/comics.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201482#Comment_201482 2009-11-11T00:00:15-08:00 2009-11-11T00:08:20-08:00 James Cunningham http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2925 Ethan- words like that make me read things. Lightyears Away instantly hooked my brain, and the presentation is perfect. It looked great on my monitor, presentation was simple and instantly clear, ... Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201511#Comment_201511 2009-11-11T03:55:21-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Audley Strange http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4475 @Ethan. I agree wholeheartedly. When I started Audley I got into all sorts of design and styles which some people liked and others didn't. I tarted it up because people were bleating about not being ... Audley I got into all sorts of design and styles which some people liked and others didn't. I tarted it up because people were bleating about not being able to navigate the menus through their phones etc etc. So then I decided that all of that was too much effort which was distracting me from actually getting on with it and that was a problem because I know how big the fucker is going to end up before it finishes. So after a few different styles to try and accomodate readers I abandoned that made it as simple as I possibly could , got back to work and let word of mouth do the rest. In doing so I have a fairly dedicated readership, am happy (actually surprised) that I have any sort of modest following at all considering how mental and seemingly confusing it all is and that give me hope that what I'm doing works. In fact just a couple of weeks ago I heard from someone who said they had found my site had spent all night reading through the entirety of it. To me that person is worth a dozen flipping through it aimlessly on their toys.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201531#Comment_201531 2009-11-11T05:22:58-08:00 2009-11-11T05:23:08-08:00 jonlaidlow http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6837 I was very impressed by the free Walking Dead #1 app on the Ipod Touch - it has a setting to show the whole page before zooming on each panel, and another setting which rotates the panel for best fit ...
I haven't been so actively involved in reading a comic since Chris Ware's Jimmy Corrigan. Back when I was trying to be a student, my thesis was to be on the physicality of Sternes' Tristram Shandy and I think too often we forget that the format and presentation of a comic should impact on the reader's experience - for whatever reason, this version of the Walking Dead did just that.

I'm still unconvinced by comics on devices - I immediately rushed over to an online shop to try to buy paper copies of the Walking Dead collections, not further issues via the comix app - but if they could be sold cheaply, they might be a nice way to read a comic and get a discount on the collected edition (which was the longbox idea, right?).]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201574#Comment_201574 2009-11-11T07:59:55-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Brendan McGinley http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=93 I still think motion in web-comics has a place, not as elements introduced within the image over time, but ambient background, like a waterfall or a flickering street lamp. One thing I really ...
One thing I really wanted to do was an animated gif for the panel of this hypersphere. I thought it would have put a great sense of otherworldliness into the static, 2-D comic images. But the animation we had really didn't work with the look of the book.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=201589#Comment_201589 2009-11-11T08:32:58-08:00 2009-11-11T08:39:33-08:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 @James Cunningham Lightyears Away instantly hooked my brain, and the presentation is perfect. It looked great on my monitor, presentation was simple and instantly clear, and starting on the first ... Lightyears Away instantly hooked my brain, and the presentation is perfect. It looked great on my monitor, presentation was simple and instantly clear, and starting on the first strip made me read the whole thing. Admitted, that's only 4 strips at the moment

Thank you very much, that is what we strive for. And I'm glad my comic was able to back up my rants, nothing is worse that someone who is all theory and no application. Light Years is still new (there are 5 pages now, since it is Wednesday) but work began on the webcomics portion site (the scripts started years ago, I am always writing 5 or 6 different scripts at a time) back in April. We knew we had to have the infrastructure first. And we thought and talked about it a lot. For instance I find comments on the actual page to be annoying, and offends Adam as a graphic designer, but we still wanted people to be able to comment on strips if they wanted to. So we moved the comments to a totally separate blog part of the website. This definitely will mean that less people comment on the strips, but those that want to, will. And in the mean time the actual comic doesn't get cluttered.

@ Audley Strange
To me that person is worth a dozen flipping through it aimlessly on their toys.


You bring up a great point, which is: at this point people reading comic from their phone give our websites (not just my website, I have talked with many other creators) very fickle traffic. Google Analytics gives me a break down of the browser and OS of every reader who comes to our site (and screen resolution, which is very helpful) and by far the visits that come like clockwork come from computers. @jonlaidlow makes this point again in his post, when he states that the walking dead app convinced him to buy the walking dead comics. If apps do this then they are successful and worth it but I won't count on them to be a solid source of readers, at least for now. Who knows how long the iPhone will be the killer phone. Probably a while, apple is very good at that. But I would hate to have my comic collection interrupted because I wanted to buy a different model of phone.

Also I went to your site, and found it very easy to navigate and read. I will definitely go back and read more when I have time. You've made things easy for the reader and that has its rewards.

@Brendan McGinley
I still think motion in web-comics has a place, not as elements introduced within the image over time, but ambient background, like a waterfall or a flickering street lamp.


I'm not going to say I have never used a GIF in a webcomic, I have. I have used GIFs to make a cursor blink on a computer screen, and another to make a panel very slowly fade to black. These were experiments in comics that I wrote and illustrated and for me I think they merely served to showcase my weakness as an artist. In the end I think it is in the execution. I am personally staying away from motion in comics for the moment because I don't want it to be a crutch. Adam, the artist I work with, is a good enough story teller to pull off any effect I need without motion. I have seen it done well rarely, and terribly often, but that can be said about almost anything in comics.

Great discussion so far, I am enjoying this.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=203586#Comment_203586 2009-11-18T08:21:16-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 I came across this webcomic last night and sat transfixed reading the entire archive: Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life. It is one of the best examples I have encountered of a webcomic that makes ... Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life. It is one of the best examples I have encountered of a webcomic that makes use of devices only available in the digital medium without coming across as gimmicky. It could also be adapted for print pretty easily. So like I said before it can be done, but it needs to be done really well. This guy is great at every element that makes a print comic work first, and then he thinks about specific ways to use the web to his advantage. And that is the way it has to be done.

I have an ulterior motive for posting it here: the comic isn't done and the artist has seemed to stop updating, so I want to send some traffic and hopefully comments his way to get him updating again.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=203590#Comment_203590 2009-11-18T09:07:39-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 shaneneville http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2746 I've been thinking A LOT about this over the past 5+ years as a part of my job as a video game designer/producer and I've come up with the following (very simple) conclusions: 1. The browser is ...
1. The browser is the world's most important entertainment medium. It reaches a wider audience, with fewer barriers than any other distribution medium ever.

2. The browser is an interactive medium that creators are still sorting out. Creating non-interactive entertainment in a browser is like putting radio shows on TV (which they did during the early years of TV - we've made these mistakes before). Your average Flash game gets more traffic in a year than most of the best webcomics out there. That's how important interaction is.

3. People like to read at their own pace - do not take this away from your reader (which is why I believe motion comics are better suited for television than the Internet)

I'm doing a webcomic in flash that explores these things - some parts of the experiment are working out fine, others need work - but it's an ongoing process.

What I do know is that I enjoy clicking through the pacing of comics more than reading 'print comics' online.

My comic is here: nrdland.com]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=203725#Comment_203725 2009-11-18T18:50:54-08:00 2009-11-18T20:51:45-08:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 Interesting thoughts Shane, you made some points I can agree with and some I strongly disagree with. For instance I definitely agree that the webcomics community in general is still trying to sort ...
Creating non-interactive entertainment in a browser is like putting radio shows on TV (which they did during the early years of TV - we've made these mistakes before).

I don't think these two things are similar, nor do I think that either are/were a mistake. Radio shows were put on television for a couple of reasons. One being that television was very new and there weren't enough shows to fill the program schedule. Another being that a lot of radio shows had a built in and dedicated audience, an audience that could be brought over to television. Putting radio shows on TV did increase viewership, and eventually television came into its own and there were enough shows being produced to fill programming slots. I don't see any negative consequences of this that would denote that it was a mistake. Now I can see the start of the analogy you were setting up; maybe the browser is a new technology and until we can fill its programming blocks with things suited for it we are putting in older technology, older technology that can bring its built in readers with it. That part works, sure, but from there it breaks down. Because no matter how many 'interactive' webcomics we see made, we will not see a decline in ( I don't even know what to call them 'print comics' doesn't work because they are webcomics, and I don't want to call it traditional, because this is a medium that defies tradition, I think I will refer to them as static, as the feels like the opposite of interactive, even though I don't think 'static' is the right term either.) static webcomics. They are two different things and the rise of one is not equal to the fall of the other. And I definitely do not believe we will see a day when we look back and say "man it was a mistake to put those non-interactive comics in a browser, fuck I am really embarrassed now." Now it's no secret that I think a lot of webcomics out there are mistakes, and that I think a lot of creators should be embarrassed, but not because they put non-interactive entertainment in a browser.

Let's take a moment to figure out what we mean by an interactive comic, because it is an important distinction to make. The first things that spring to my mind when I read 'interactive comics' are choose-your-own-adventure type comics, there is some level of interaction there. I liked choose-your-own-adventure books, but I can't think of a single one I liked more than a 'non-interactive' book. I've read a couple of choose-your-own-adventure webcomics, none that I like more than my favorite webcomics though. But I doubted that you meant choose-your-own-adventure comics by interactive comics anyway, so I went to your website and read your webcomic. So it seems that the interaction you are talking about is clicking the right arrow to reveal more panels on the page and more dialogue. I've seen this a lot recently, sometimes it used to great effect, most of the time it is not. You do it very well sometimes and sometimes there are problems. I've already addressed some of the problems with this format in prior posts: it can lead to lazy story telling, too much dialogue for the 'page' to support, and problems if the work is ever to be printed and sold. Another major problem is that it often causes sloppy, confusing and lazy lettering. Balloons can be placed anywhere on the page because the letterer is relying on the order in which they pop up, and not how they work with the page. You go on to say:
People like to read at their own pace - do not take this away from your reader

I absolutely disagree that adding in panels and dialogue in this manner allows any better control of pace than having them all available on the first click. Having two balloons on the page does not make me rush through the first. In effect what this does is break every page down into smaller pages, you loose the concept of panels and ultimately create more work for the reader. I get very annoyed having to click my mouse so many times if the story and comic are not extremely good. Another issue is that this can lead to more focus being placed on the lettering than necessary, and less focus being devoted to the artwork. Finally I don't know if this is any more "interactive" than simply clicking a next button and moving to the next page, or for that matter turning a page in a book. it is certainly more clicks of the mouse, but is that really interacting with the comic?


Your average Flash game gets more traffic in a year than most of the best webcomics out there. That's how important interaction is.

First, can you please show your work? I would really interested to see an average flash game getting more hits than 'one of the best' webcomics. It's not really important though because that statement is a non-sequitur. The average celebrity gossip site also gets way more hits than most webcomics, does that mean that our comics should all be about reality TV stars? Google gets way more hits than any webcomic, should I incorporate a search engine into Fat Baby? Comics are comics, they are not games, and they are not animation. If someone wants to make a game or an animation they should do so, I make comics.

Ultimately my point is not that interactive comics should be scorned, that is not my point at all. Comics can be whatever you want them to be, as long as they work. The problem is most don't work. I don't think that there is anything that makes an interactive comic inherently better than a static one, in fact i think it adds a lot of potential pit traps- pit traps that if the creator is not at the top of his game- he will fall into. I think we should all focus on making the best possible comics we can, no matter what tools we use to do it. I think we should hold story telling paramount, and if a gimmick gets in the way of storytelling we should get rid of the gimmick.

At the end of the day in this industry we all live or die by the quality of our work and the quality our work alone.

And Shane, this post is certainly not directed at you, you brought up some issues I see a lot of and that i wanted to address. I read, and enjoyed petra's call and for what it is worth, I will continue to read it if you keep making it.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=203753#Comment_203753 2009-11-18T22:40:46-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Adam Rosenlund http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=803 Real talk here: If you're more worried about ways to make your comic interactive in some arbitrary fashion than you are about the comic itself, then you've already failed. Who cares about giving ...
If you have an idea that can ONLY be done through the use of browser work, then by all means. There's plenty of ideas that I've had that also utilize user controlled space to create non-linear narratives, although these were more about gallery installations using illustrated stand ups that tell a story as people walk through it. Even there though, I'm thinking about how to control the pace and experience using one parallel narrative to distract the viewer from the other narratives until they walk into the next scene. But the point is not to shoehorn stuff into the book just because you think it will be more attractive to some nebulous demographic. People will stay if you produce a product that keeps them interested, and no amount of browser trickery can help you do that.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=203854#Comment_203854 2009-11-19T08:49:19-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 shaneneville http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2746 Great discussion here. First - I am definitely biased. I've been making video games for +15 years and I firmly believe in the future of interactive entertainment. I believe that if you are ...
First - I am definitely biased. I've been making video games for +15 years and I firmly believe in the future of interactive entertainment. I believe that if you are creating something whose ultimate destination is an interactive platform, it should be interactive.

The problem is that what an interactive comic is, is still being defined.

Re: Pacing - My key point here is that people read at their own pace. A lot of interactive and motion comics control how quickly text appears and disappears. I believe this is a mistake.

Re: Flash Game #'s - Check out a top flash game portal like Kongregate, AddictingGames or NewGrounds and you'll see that a game can get thousands of plays in a day. Spread that across the 30,000+ portals out there that distribute these games and you can see how many flash games get 1,000,000 plays in a week and how hit games can get 1,000,000 plays in a day. While comparing webcomics with webgames might be apples to oranges, it does show that part of the browser experience is interactivity.

Re: Quality - I can't agree enough. Quality is everything.

But dismissing interactive comics because of a few sour experiences is like dismissing movies because you saw Transformers 2.

The signal to noise ration in interactive comics is low, but what's important is that they are moving ahead and great works of interactive comics are finding an audience:

1000 Words is a fantastic interactive comic. It's a comic that does a great job of working within the strengths and constraints of the browser. 1000 Words has over 300,000 views, which I'd be hard pressed to find with a non-interactive, non-serialized comic (web or print) by an unknown creator. I also believe that if it weren't interactive, it wouldn't have reached the audience it did - and many other great, but non-interactive, comics with lower readership on DeviantArt prove that point.

Along with the comic Pia posted, I have a lot of faith in the future of interactive comics.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=203968#Comment_203968 2009-11-19T18:37:19-08:00 2009-11-19T20:31:12-08:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 My last post actually exceeded the character limit for the forum and I had to edit it down, so I will try to keep this one more brief. The problem is that what an interactive comic is, is still ...
The problem is that what an interactive comic is, is still being defined.


Clearly. How would you define it?

Re: Pacing - My key point here is that people read at their own pace. A lot of interactive and motion comics control how quickly text appears and disappears. I believe this is a mistake.


I totally agree, but then I think motion comics as a whole are terrible. They absolutely ruin pace, while making up for it with by giving you a cartoon that looks like it was animated by a blind, spastic, eight year-old. I don't want to be accused of judging an entire style of comic because of a few sour experiences again, but I have never seen a motion comic that didn't make me want to vomit. Hyperbole yes. But the truth is not far from that. (and when I say motion comics , I mean motion comics. I don't mean comics that use moving elements often via GIFs.)

Re: Flash Game #'s - Check out a top flash game portal like Kongregate, AddictingGames or NewGrounds and you'll see that a game can get thousands of plays in a day. Spread that across the 30,000+ portals out there that distribute these games and you can see how many flash games get 1,000,000 plays in a week and how hit games can get 1,000,000 plays in a day. While comparing webcomics with webgames might be apples to oranges, it does show that part of the browser experience is interactivity.


Like you yourself point out, this is apples and oranges. But there is another issue with it, one that begs for discussion. A hit game, you say, spread out over 30,000+ portals can get 1,000,000 plays a day ( you do not say whether these are unique plays or total plays, but I am betting it is total plays.) Alexia tells us that the webcomic that generates the most traffic is Penny Arcade at about 300,000 unique views a month. 300,000 is a much smaller number than 1,000,000 yes but that 1,000,000 is, by your admission, spread out over 30,000 + different websites. Business 101- 300,000 views focused on your site, is better than 1,000,000 spread out over a vast many others. The Penny Arcade guys support themselves, a charity, and a staff of 8 from the money they make from their site. And their comic is not interactive. I don't know much about flash games so perhaps you can help me out. There are lots of guys supporting themselves off webcomics, but I can't think of any flash game that supports it's independent creator. The only guy I have ever known who made flash games and animations who said he was able to make a living off of them, later admitted that this was just what he told the tax man, he really supported himself by selling drugs.

1000 Words is a fantastic interactive comic. It's a comic that does a great job of working within the strengths and constraints of the browser. 1000 Words has over 300,000 views, which I'd be hard pressed to find with a non-interactive, non-serialized comic (web or print) by an unknown creator. I also believe that if it weren't interactive, it wouldn't have reached the audience it did - and many other great, but non-interactive, comics with lower readership on DeviantArt prove that point.


Oh 1,000 Words. Sigh. I'm not going to touch the trite, bland content of that strip, (although, I just did) I want to focus on format. 1,000 Words is not an interactive comic. It is a -mostly- single panel cartoon strip, in a flash reader. There are only 7 pages out of the total work (56 pages long) that utilize narrative flow and even then, just barely. It feels more like children's book than a comic to me. Now the flash reader definitely helps the work, compiled into a reader it was able to get a daily deviation and its 300,000 lifetime views, something none of the pages alone could have done. But does the flash reader alone make it interactive? No. It is no different a reading experience than any webcomic. You click the next arrow to advance to the next page. The comic Pia Posted is closer, he does some interesting things with the passage of time. He is still getting a little too close to animation territory, where you loose the great part of comics where the reader's imagination fills in the gaps, but he is doing a better job than most of the people experimenting with this style, and that is kind of the point. That comic also isn't so much about interaction as it is about time and space.

I don't know, I think we have to do 1 thing before we all go nuts: Define what we mean by interactive comics.

Again I don't think that experimenting with ideas is bad. But I do think that the comic as an art form has been around for a long time, it was polished and beautiful, and in my opinion the best medium for story telling long before web browsers came along. And I don't think we have to change a thing when we put them into a browser. Interaction is great if it is done right, but it is not the future of the art form.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204024#Comment_204024 2009-11-20T03:01:57-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 shaneneville http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2746 For me - interactive comics is simply this: A comic that requires the readers interactions, beyond the act of turning the page, to move the comic forward. Re: Flash Games - There are quite a few ...
Re: Flash Games - There are quite a few companies of 50+ people making flash games as well as dozens of independent creators making a living (some, making a very, very good living - the recent success of Canabalt - a weekend indy jam Flash game that went on to top seller on iPhone comes to mind).

Portal vs. Homepage - I come from the school of thought that as a creator, I want as many people as possible to see what I've created - video game, comic, whatever. Whether it's through a portal or my homepage, what matters to me is that it gets in front of as many people as possible. With Flash, you can still generate revenue from products and advertising with people never visiting your homepage.

Obviously, you don't like 1000 Words. I'm sure that there are traditional print comics that you don't like as well. That is a matter of subjective opinion. The fact remains that 1000 Words is a comic and an interactive comic. And while you might not like it - over 300,000 people have which means it's striking a chord.

Dismissing 1000 Words viewship as a result of being a 'daily deviation' is like saying that the only reason Penny-Arcade was successful is because when it launched was every gaming site and magazine linked to their comics (which is exactly what happened). This is the viral nature of the Internet - nothing is successful without people promoting it.

As for the future of comics in the digital medium - I believe comics will adapt to the medium. They don't need to change, but they will.

I say this because they ARE changing. Right now.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204121#Comment_204121 2009-11-20T09:35:35-08:00 2009-11-20T10:44:54-08:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 interactive comics is simply this: A comic that requires the readers interactions, beyond the act of turning the page, to move the comic forward. The fact remains that 1000 Words is a comic and an ... interactive comics is simply this: A comic that requires the readers interactions, beyond the act of turning the page, to move the comic forward.

The fact remains that 1000 Words is a comic and an interactive comic.


Not by your own definition it is not. There is no level of interaction other than reading the comic and turning the page. Putting a comic in a flash reader does not make it somehow different than a comic not in a reader.

Dismissing 1000 Words viewship as a result of being a 'daily deviation' is like saying that the only reason Penny-Arcade was successful is because when it launched was every gaming site and magazine linked to their comics (which is exactly what happened). This is the viral nature of the Internet - nothing is successful without people promoting it.


I am definitely not dismissing anything as being simply a daily deviation. Daily Deviations are hard to get and a great boon, we have only had...2, I believe, I don't know you would have to ask Adam, it's his DA page. What I said was that putting the entire comic in a flash reader allowed it to, as a whole, get a deserved DD, where none of the pages by themselves would be able to. I stand by those words. I would have no problems loading full story lines of one of my webcomics into a flash reader and putting it on DA. That is a valid promotion strategy, but it wouldn't suddenly make my comic interacative.

Portal vs. Homepage - I come from the school of thought that as a creator, I want as many people as possible to see what I've created - video game, comic, whatever. Whether it's through a portal or my homepage, what matters to me is that it gets in front of as many people as possible. With Flash, you can still generate revenue from products and advertising with people never visiting your homepage.


That is great, thank you for answering my question. And I agree that getting the work to the most people as possible is a great thing, I have said as much on this forum several times. At present though comics are not distributed via a portal system though. Who knows if they would get as many views as a top flash game if they were. The question though is purely academic though, because as we have both said webcomics are not games or anything else and should not be judged by their standards. Also a company of 50+ plus employees is an entirely different animal, than two guys making a webcomic. Does Avatar even have 50+ employees?

As for the future of comics in the digital medium - I believe comics will adapt to the medium. They don't need to change, but they will.

I say this because they ARE changing. Right now.


Some will change. Most will not. Some are changing right now, most -including all the most successful webcomics (Penny Arcade,MegaTokyo, PVP, least I can do, Freak Angels, Questionable Content, Something Positive, XKCD, SMBC, etc*)- are not. None of those comics are interactive, and none employ flash readers. Only time will tell, but I think that for the foreseeable future, most of the best webcomics will remain that way. Because, while I think experimentation with new mediums is great, comics are already at the pinnacle of storytelling potential. The original question asked by the topic starter was "As online comics become more popular and prevalent (as I'm sure they will), how should artists and writers adapt." My answer is that (beyond fixing the readability, and navigation issues we face as a community) we do not need to. Some people will and I am all for that, but comics have been perfected and labored over by masters of the art form for a long time now, and nearly every time I come across a 'digital interactive innovation' it takes away from some aspect that the masters worked so hard to build for us.

We don't need to change a thing, to adapt. More power to the people who do, I look forward to reading your stories, but there is no crisis here, no comic is going to live or die by its interactivity, it will live or die by its quality.

*not saying that I particularly like all the comics in that list, because the only comics I do like from the list are Freak Angels, XKCD and SMBC. I'm only saying that they are successful]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204154#Comment_204154 2009-11-20T10:44:30-08:00 2009-11-20T10:47:27-08:00 Endjinn http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5620 I would like to see the animation in digital format narrative take a bigger role, its the logical step forward for creators. its the logical step forward for creators.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204172#Comment_204172 2009-11-20T11:46:27-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Aurora Borealis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5514 On pageviews and all: I just went to my fav webcomic, Sinfest and checked the stats for the project wonderful ad that's on top of the front page. There's on average about +200k pageviews, and ...
I just went to my fav webcomic, Sinfest and checked the stats for the project wonderful ad that's on top of the front page.

There's on average about +200k pageviews, and around 100k unique visitors. A DAY!
Meaning it hits over a million pageviews a week.
And it's just a simple daily strip, with an additional full page sunday strip in color, so basically it's a newspaper strip transplanted onto the web. How does it use it? Well, it makes possible for the strip to touch upon things that would never pass in a newspaper.

Now, if you want a webcomic that does things impossible to do on paper I suggest Nawlz, but it's pure fulscreen flash so you better have a decent pc (my five year old machine barely cuts it) and a good connection.

There are animations/animated loops, music, sound samples, special effects, clickable easter eggs and the whole thing keeps on expanding in every direction, with new panels replacing old ones or popping up on top, folding in and out, scrolling to the side etc.

But it works with the setting of the story, which is basically about people who live in three worlds, the real one and two virtual. I don't think that would work well with fantasy comic for example, haha.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204187#Comment_204187 2009-11-20T12:32:35-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 shaneneville http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2746 Ethan Ede: Not by your own definition it is not. There is no level of interaction other than reading the comic and turning the page. Putting a comic in a flash reader does not make it somehow ... Not by your own definition it is not. There is no level of interaction other than reading the comic and turning the page. Putting a comic in a flash reader does not make it somehow different than a comic not in a reader.

There are some great moments in 1000 Words where the experience happens within the frame - user controlled animations and pacing/framing that only work because they are in an interactive medium and not on a page. To me, that's interactive. You disagree. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm ok with that.

Re: Nawlz - Nawls is extremely interesting. It doesn't always succeed, but it does create some great moments that wouldn't be possible on any other medium.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204196#Comment_204196 2009-11-20T13:14:02-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Yskaya http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1359 @Paul Duffield: May I quote you (on facebook; in a closed network) on post (7043.15)? we're having a discussion much similar to this one and yours states a point perfectly. As soon as I think of ...
As soon as I think of something useful to add to the topic i'll post, for now back to lurking.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204307#Comment_204307 2009-11-20T22:02:34-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 Ethan Ede http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7656 @Aurora Borealis I've been reading Nawlz tonight, it is pretty damn decent. This is what I'm talking about, there is nothing here that could be translated to print, this is an idea that can only ...
I've been reading Nawlz tonight, it is pretty damn decent. This is what I'm talking about, there is nothing here that could be translated to print, this is an idea that can only be done through the medium they are using. Plus the creators can draw, write, program, and have a decent grasp of storytelling. The future of webcomics? No, I don't think there is any reason for any other comic to imitate this, but it is great for what it is.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204340#Comment_204340 2009-11-21T04:03:38-08:00 2009-11-21T04:05:07-08:00 PatrickBrown http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1800 My comics are done with jpegs and hyperlinks on a blog, and there's nothing there that my mum, who has broadband internet but panics when an application wants to update itself, or half my co-workers, ...
It's an odd discussion. One the one hand, you those who insist that too much clicking and scrolling will put readers off, and on the other, those who insist there's no point in doing it if you don't make it "interactive", which, on examination, mostly turns out to mean more clicking and scrolling, only in Flash.]]> Adapting comic art for the digital age http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7043&Focus=204341#Comment_204341 2009-11-21T04:04:08-08:00 2013-06-17T23:05:02-07:00 William George http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7366 @Adam Rosenlund: "Who cares about giving the reader interactivity? This is comics. This isn't video games." Fuck yeah! If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. @Adam Rosenlund:

"Who cares about giving the reader interactivity? This is comics. This isn't video games."

Fuck yeah! If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.]]>