Whitechapel - Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

iskander6891 — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:02:44 -0800

I love this title and its characters but it seems pretty obvious to me that the Freakangels are the bad guys of this story. I mean come on. They destroyed the world to make a point. Can we all say supervillain.

On top of all that these guys seem to have no problem with thinning out the ranks of the survivors. Was I the only one who felt sorry for those desperate starving people the gang wiped out for daring to raid their little kingdom. All the apparent good they do in Whitechapel seems to be about maintaining their grip on a community that would probably take them out Midwich style if they ever learned about the FA's role in armageddon.

Maybe I'm completely off base and we'll learn that the guys were completely justified in their actions. Personally I hope this is not the case as it's the moral ambiguity of these characters that make them so cool to read about.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Oddcult — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:15:48 -0800

Nah. Of course they're not the bad guys. They're the good guys, of course. Just like The Authority. Or William Gravel. Or Judge Dredd.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

iskander6891 — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:36:47 -0800

I don't know. Rape, murder, genocide. Not exactly the stuff heroes are made of.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

rickiep00h — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:20:05 -0800

I think it's fair to say that it's a large group with many differing points of view. Luke may be a rapist, but it's obvious that the rest of the group is not cool with it.

Everyone does stupid shit when they're a teenager, sometimes things they can't live down. It just happens that these teens were doing stupid superpowered shit.

I'm pretty sure that Mark is the villain, and happens to be a very smart, suave, and cold villain.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

iskander6891 — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:37:32 -0800

Actually I'm holding out hope that Mark isn't going to be the big bad. I think it would much cooler if he ran into something a lot more badass out there in the wastelands and everything we've seen so far has be part of a nefarious plan to test the capabilities of his fellow Freakangels.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Slick — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:05:48 -0800

Why must they be good or bad, maybe they're just like other people (except for the superpowers).

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

hank — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:22:16 -0800

What slick said. There are no good guys or bad guys in life, just people. Some people have agendas and behavior you like, others not so much.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

James Puckett — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:27:02 -0800

They’re kids who got in over their heads and screwed up just like most kids do. Unfortunately these kids happen to have powers.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Internaut — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:21:19 -0800

I'm not sure that "Bad" and "Good" really apply as of yet. The military presence has already been demonized, as we are meant to feel some kind of sympathy for the Freakangels as they are on the run for who-knows-what-reasons yet (I'm assuming the 'Genetic freaks on the run from the government" backstory). Yes, we've seen a glimpse of what they can do together, with the talk of their shielding prowess and you know....that whole punching a hole through the world thing. But strictly speaking, we have yet to see any of the "evil" that Mark perpetrates (Again, aside from wanting to punch a Hole in the Earth).

That being said, I do hope someone takes Luke down a peg or five. And when I say "takes him down a peg" i do in fact mean "Telekineticly burst his testicles, reform them, and burst them again. Over and Over."

Also, I'm off to listen to Deftones' "Hole in the Earth." It's been rattling around inside my head since I typed this.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

IsaacSher — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:41:29 -0800

I would think that trying to establish cut and dried categories like Good and Evil on these characters is a waste of time.

I mean, look at Sirkka. We recently saw her performing a selective mind-wipe and body-alteration on a rape victim. The idea was to remove the mental, physical, and sexual trauma of the rape, by "fixing" it as if she'd never experienced the attack. Her memory of the rape is gone, so no mental trauma. The physical damage is healed as if it were never there, and any DNA evidence left on her -- blood, sperm, etc. -- is gone. Sirkka clearly approaches this from a "let's make it all better" standpoint.

BUT.

One could make an argument that a mindwipe like this, even done with the best of intentions and done with scalpel-like precision to only take out the "bad" memories, is as bad or worse than the sexual rape that this was meant to heal.

There is no easy answer to this. It's a slippery shade of gray.

Just like nearly everything else in FREAKANGELS.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

iskander6891 — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:52:00 -0800

When you think about it Luke is about as real as it gets.

If you're responsible for destroying the world, if you can do pretty much anything you want without consequences, why is it surprising that he uses his powers in the way he does? He obviously doesn't consider himself to be a mere mortal anymore.

That seems to be a more brutally real response to the situation, rather than chilling in paradise attitude the rest of the gang has. Day one flood London. Day two grow strawberries.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Internaut — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:03:05 -0800

yes, essentially healing one kind of rape with another is a slippery slope indeed.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Fauxhammer — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:04:05 -0800

I don't think it's a case of good versus bad; the FAs clearly have their own code of morality ("Freakangels business") which, along with their power, puts them into the category of deity, where they're more benevolent or more malevolent.

Was Loki a bad guy? It depends on what myth you read. The same might hold true for Luke in the end.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

NoCleverUserName — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:14:19 -0800

Everybody's a badguy to somebody.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

arvandor — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:29:52 -0800

They do seem to have a disturbing lack of regard for life, which could be attributed to their hunted lifestyle, but only Luke and (presumably) Mark seem to demonstrate actual sociopathy.

They're not villains. But like many they only care about what they can see. If its not in Whitechapel and not someone they know, they don't think about it. But if confronted by someone in need, they will help.

(the exceptions being Luke and Mark, of course)

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Indigo Rose — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:39:01 -0800

A little late in joining the conversation, but I'd like to agree with the "shade of grey" group here.

Now that we've seen more of the flashbacks, we've gotten to see more of Mark. I'd have to say that Mark has demonstrated sociopathic tendancies in his casual face-melting, and we'd already seen Luke be a rapist. However, the rest of them are confused young people, rather than villains. This last episode, we leave them at a confrontation that may or may not be the catalyst for their world altering action. If this is the case, then they reacted out of fear and a will to survive, but accidentaly put too much force behind it. I think it's pretty clear they didn't just say, "Here's an idea, let's wipe out everything and start over, we can have a garden on a rooftop and grow strawberries!" I still hold the opinion it's an "Oh shit!" BOOM! moment. Yes, they've been contemplating a demonstration of power to make the authorities back off, but I don't think any of them (except maybe Mark) have thought about that scale of destruction.

As for their behavior in Whitechapel, after the fact, only Luke has really been a heinous arsehole. The rest of the gang has been trying to be penitent (several occasions of "it's the least we can do" attitude) and rebuild a little of what they destroyed. I'm not saying this absolves them and makes them saints, but that they are not behaving in sociopathic ways. When they behave short-sightedly or selfishly, it's because they are young, but thrown into a position of authority by default. They don't have the experience to give them the scope they need to look at a picture larger than making sure they and the folks in Whitechapel survive.

Also, empathizing with people who decide to come kill innocent people out of desperation for food, is a little wacky in a survival setting. It's not like they showed up and said, "We're hungry, please share with us." They came with weapons to take what they needed. The FreakAngels killed those few attackers to protect a larger group of individuals who were just trying to live their lives. Granted their methods were extreme, but those are the weapons at their disposal and, again, they react as young people with powers they don't fully understand.

(edited to fix a Mark/Luke name switch)

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

razrangel — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:22:58 -0800

You might be interested in this thread Ethics in a Drowned World

I don't tend to have any use for comics where it's good guys versus bad guys and it's never unclear which is which. But I enjoy stories about folks who have to struggle with decisions and sort themselves out. Sometimes they do it right...sometimes not so much. The thing about ethics is typically you have to think your way into them, and hence we don't really expect them of teenagers. We also conventionally excuse people under duress, but only to a certain degree. Killing in self-defense is usually within bounds but rape and cannibalism never are. It may be useful to remember that ethics/morals/laws are always easy enough to keep to when the world is trucking along, it's a sunny day and no one is trying to kill you. They are hard and therefore important to keep when times are difficult.

Good? Bad? They're just guys. Superpowered guys who, media en res, are trying to make up for something they did in the past.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Cat Vincent — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:38:27 -0800

@Fauxhammer:
Nice catch on the Luke/Loki bit. Now wondering if it's a deliberate on on Warren's part...

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

HylianHearts — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:48:12 -0800

Humans with superpowers doing the best they can. It's not really good or bad. I mean, they are trying to live. A few of them feel bad about what their powers did- and they should, they destroyed the world. But they can't fix the whole world, just their corner.

Or can they fix it? I mean, if they had the power to punch a hole, why can't they patch that hole?? Even without all of them?

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

AndrDrew — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:55:18 -0800

It is much easier to destroy than to create.
Besides, there are some things that you can't just reverse and have it all be back to normal. Although now that I think about it, with the Freakangels perhaps the saying that "you can't unbake a cake" doesn't quite apply the same anymore.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Paul Duffield — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:34:25 -0800

You might wanna re-phrase. "Are they protagonists or antagonists?" is a better question from a storytelling point of view, and the answer is a pretty clear "protagonists" since the story takes their point of view, and we see anything opposing them as obstacles, even if they did destroy the world... especially since anyone ostracised from the clan (Mark and now Luke) are definitely presented as antagonists.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Fauxhammer — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:48:32 -0800

@Cat Vincent Am I ready to lay money down? Not just yet, but it is an interesting name choice, given the circumstance.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

thud — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:02:05 -0800

until we know more about what happened to them we won't have any standard to judge their actions.
This is not a normal situation and these are not normal people.
lots of slippery gray there.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

AyakoNoChou — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:16:42 -0800

I'd love to see an answer by Luke on this, since he's the group intellectual. (though, maybe he needs to smarten up on why everyone keeps shooting/hitting him...)

Anyways, I think "good" and "bad" are very subjective, especially in FreakAngels. At first the whole FA group is rather innocent, but persecuted. This paints the picture of the authorities being the bad guys, persecuting that which they do not understand or cannot control.

Mark has an idea of what to do about this, and more or less uses the others to attain in. They get put in a desperate situation of "do or die" and so they do, and even as they're doing they begin to protest as Mark pushes them further and further, leading to the flooding. They can't be pure evil, as a group, because they didn't intend to flood that whole area and kill a bunch of people. People like Mark who'd planned to make an impact of bigger proportions could be looked at in a darker light, but the whole group isn't evil for a mistake made without knowing the consequences of it at the time.

Later Luke commits rape, which does rather make him look bad, especially as it is with mind control, but then the others are against it and stop it. Sirkka goes as far to do what she feels is "right" and "undoes" the rape. This, whether it makes her good or bad, is questioned by the others. The morality of a harem could easily be questioned by modern readers especially of religious influences.

But yet, the FreakAngels are working to build anew now. At first they were just watching out for the people with them, which is a very noble thing to do, and now they are working on taking more people in, helping more people. That isn't the act of someone (or a group of people) who's evil/ "the bad guys".

In the end, they're rather human. They each make choices, some that are good, and some that are bad, and some that lead to feelings of guilt. Of course, having a heavy sense of guild (such as what Miki has) shows that you aren't an evil person based on your wrong actions (in my opinion). Another thing to show they aren't the bad guys is not only do they feel bad about what they've done, but they avoid situations where something big, major, and bad like that could be done again.

It kind of makes me think of Batman, the Dark Knight, the hero who's not always a good guy. Only, well, FA operates totally different than Batman ^^'

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

WhatTheCatDraggedIn — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:24:48 -0800

@AyakoNoChou said:

Only, well, FA operates totally different than Batman ^^'

I dunno... Both use force where & when necessary... that seems to be one of the defining methods of operation for each of them.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

jimmyjungle — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:34:15 -0800

the world tends to go out of it's way to control or destroy extraordinary people,don't forget.
so this time the mob and the government and the status quo got slapped down.
perhaps it's just the will of nature.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Paul Duffield — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:22:40 -0800

@jimmyjungle
I'd say that the world (by which I guess you mean human societies) actually tends to ignore and undervalue the majority of extraordinary people, but then I guess the type of extraordinary that the real world has to offer is a bit more difficult to identify than a dozen all-powerful psychics.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Zip Durango — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:09 -0800

@Paul Duffield

man, if only people had undervalued John Lennon, Ghandi, Martin Luther King and countless other progressionist thinkers just a little bit more maybe they'd still be here to help quicken this organism, our social antibodies keep terminating pregancies and letting viruses spread unchecked.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

meaninglessnoise — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:14:17 -0800

The other thing to bear in mind is that this particular narrative involves multiple characters.
Short version: I'm sure the FA don't think with a hive mind (unless they all plug into each other, but even then everyone still has a voice and an individual will).
Perhaps it is more curious to ask if each individual FreakAngel is a good/bad guy...
Some of their intentions are easy to place, some not. But there are 12 of them. 12 strange children were born with a similar gift, but each of them is inclined to use that gift in a unique way. It's only natural that some of them would gravitate toward power/ domination, while others prefer a 'leave me the fuck alone so I can grow strawberries' approach. 10 of the 12 seem to share a common idea of 'let's clean up our mess a little bit,' but they're still 12 different characters.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

kaiserdean — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:32:25 -0800

I think this is a good example of sympathetic villains and condescending heroes. Like any group of people there good eggs and bad eggs among them and outsiders of the group will have their own opinions.

Even if the FA were persecuted before the big bang, they've got a long way to go to redeem themselves and make up for what they did.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Foley — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:09:02 -0800

"Even if the FA were persecuted before the big bang, they've got a long way to go to redeem themselves and make up for what they did."

That's a matter of opinion.

What exactly did they disrupt? An orderly world where people are kind, loving, and compassionate? Or a world where a group of kids are received as a threat just for being gifted, and are summarily hunted down by the military?

Sure, they blew up the world. But who stopped to think that maybe the world isn't worth saving?

Can anyone venture a guess as to what might have happened if the military successfully captured the gang before the cataclysm happened? They wouldn't have cured the "illness" they cited as the reason they gave chase after the kids, and they most certainly wouldn't have let them go. They would have studied the shit out of those kids until they all died of old age so they could weaponize the package. Now, would they have made it available to the public? Yes, but only after it becomes so widespread that it is no longer advantageous to hoard it and use it as a weapon system. But a government having scientific control of the package? Even a piece of the power that we've seen in action so far?

I'm pretty damn sure that the conclusion to said scenario is worse than the flood will ever be. The Freakangels went a bit off the deep end and hurt a bunch of people in self defense, yes. Is it easy to speak in their defense, knowing what we know? You're goddamn skippy, it is. But are these guys bad?

It's not very often that you see "bad guys" setting up humanitarian efforts in the forms of shelter, food, security, health care, construction, salvaging, and unfettered commerce.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

HylianHearts — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:45:53 -0800

Foley- you do have a point. It might actually be better that the FA "restarted" the world. I mean, where is it going now? Yes, there was a large loss of life and huge damage done tot he world, but nature would eventually wipe the slate clean on its own, as it has done in the past (like by way of the plague). The Angels hastened this turn around, but maybe that's not a bad thing over all, even if you don't think about what could be done with the package in Government hands. And they ARE doing what they can to help pick up the pieces and start fresh.

In short, them making bad choices don't make them bad people.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

scs — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:35:27 -0800

If the FAs were either the good guys or the bad guys, this story would be a helluva lot less interesting.

As for their destroying the world . . . one conspicuously missing fact (or rather, large collection of facts) is just why the army et. al. were pursuing them with so much force and yet with relative restraint. Were they simply being recaptured after a clever escape? Or had the FAs left behind a pile of corpses? If the FAs killed to escape, killed to get away from their pursuers, and then committed world-wide mass murder to stay free, I can't see much justification for their actions: it looks perfectly selfish to me. If on the other hand they escaped peaceably, tried to lay low, and then defended themselves without knowing how much damage their actions would cause, then it's a considerably different story.

But that really just comes back to my first paragraph. Nothing is black and white here, and I doubt it will ever be made so. The FA world is full of greys, all shades of it. How they are reacting to it makes the story.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Jack the Rapper — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 05:06:53 -0700

FA are just people, who can be bad, good, and all the nuances in between. Mark is too domineering, Luke is a shifty vile rapist and maybe Jack and Kirk are a bit "trigger happy". But the others are quite cool persons, expecially Arkady, Karl, KK and Sirkka. I think Sirkka has it right, by the way.If you remove all trace of rape, physical and mental, as if it neverhappened, you simply restore the victim to health. Some experiences better be forgotten

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

longtimelurker — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:34:22 -0700

I agree with the comments above regarding Luke as Loki, but don't forget the OTHER great villain of history with a similar name.

LUCIFER.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Fauxhammer — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:58:48 -0700

@longtimelurker: That connection(in my mind--I haven't quite worked it all out yet) goes to Mark.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

longtimelurker — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:46:24 -0700

@Fauxhammer

OK then, it's both of them. Just thought it would be worth considering since they are called angels...

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

AisforAmy — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:08:20 -0700

I'm still wondering what the catalyst was that put them on the run in the first place. Which one (if any of them) tipped the scales and freaked someone out badly enough that the law and the military found out about them and got involved. Did their parents turn them in? So far, we've only heard little clues about their parents, and I'd like to know more.

They might have been perceived as 'the bad guys' because of something they did that caused them to go on the run. Surely if one or two of them was in trouble for using the package recklessly, the others would have rallied together in an 'all for on' sort of way.

They didn't mean to end the world; while what happened makes them stupid kids, I don't think it makes them (as a whole) the bad guys. They aren't exactly standing up and taking responsibility for what they did, but they are doing what they can without revealing their powers, to make the situation better where they can. I think it's what they choose to do now that will determine whether or not the turn out to be good or bad, just like everyone else.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

Fauxhammer — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:12:59 -0700

@longtimelurker No, no, no; I think you're totally on base with the Lucifer connotation: he was in this group, but he rebelled and was cast out.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

longtimelurker — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:09:30 -0700

@Fauxhammer

Exactly. Cast out precisely because he refused to serve mankind. Lucifer thought man should serve him.

@AisforAmy

We know by the time of the events shown in Book Four the kids had already been on the run for a while. We know they had been in conflict with the authorities long enough that nobody was bothering to take prisoners anymore. Mark was already talking about changing the world on their fourteenth birthday, and Arkady had her overdose at age 15. That's a full two to three years of playing with the package before the final confrontation at age 17. Luke mentioned that the official story had already undergone a couple of changes, from calling them "Sick Freaks" to "Angels of Death" and back again, which is probably how they created their name as a group. We also know the kids weren't always patient or careful. It may not have been one catalyst--it could have been a lot of things going progressively wrong, with the ordinary people becoming more and more frightened by the fact that these twelve kids already qualified as a global superpower and they hadn't even grown up yet.

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

petebln — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:28:44 -0700

Are the Freakangels bad guys?

This is the wrong question. The idea of pure good & bad characters, where everything is simplified to black and white, is a relatively new concept coming from film (think early cowboy movies), the original superman comics etc.

In Freakangels, the characters are more ambiguous (and thus 3 dimensional) in the tradition of classical heroes (which are flawed), or maybe the romantic anti-hero. It's not a childrens comic which has to present a simple dualistic morality.

There's also a lot of variance between the individual Freakangels - compare Luke and Miki for example. It's not possable to classify them as a group.

It kind of makes me think of Batman, the Dark Knight, the hero who's not always a good guy

Batman ( Dark Knight) may have broken the (US) comic tradition, but is actually in terms of western storytelling more traditional.