Not signed in (Sign In)
  1.  (7184.21)
    You might wanna re-phrase. "Are they protagonists or antagonists?" is a better question from a storytelling point of view, and the answer is a pretty clear "protagonists" since the story takes their point of view, and we see anything opposing them as obstacles, even if they did destroy the world... especially since anyone ostracised from the clan (Mark and now Luke) are definitely presented as antagonists.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2009
     (7184.22)
    @Cat Vincent Am I ready to lay money down? Not just yet, but it is an interesting name choice, given the circumstance.
    • CommentAuthorthud
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2009
     (7184.23)
    until we know more about what happened to them we won't have any standard to judge their actions.
    This is not a normal situation and these are not normal people.
    lots of slippery gray there.
  2.  (7184.24)
    I'd love to see an answer by Luke on this, since he's the group intellectual. (though, maybe he needs to smarten up on why everyone keeps shooting/hitting him...)

    Anyways, I think "good" and "bad" are very subjective, especially in FreakAngels. At first the whole FA group is rather innocent, but persecuted. This paints the picture of the authorities being the bad guys, persecuting that which they do not understand or cannot control.

    Mark has an idea of what to do about this, and more or less uses the others to attain in. They get put in a desperate situation of "do or die" and so they do, and even as they're doing they begin to protest as Mark pushes them further and further, leading to the flooding. They can't be pure evil, as a group, because they didn't intend to flood that whole area and kill a bunch of people. People like Mark who'd planned to make an impact of bigger proportions could be looked at in a darker light, but the whole group isn't evil for a mistake made without knowing the consequences of it at the time.

    Later Luke commits rape, which does rather make him look bad, especially as it is with mind control, but then the others are against it and stop it. Sirkka goes as far to do what she feels is "right" and "undoes" the rape. This, whether it makes her good or bad, is questioned by the others. The morality of a harem could easily be questioned by modern readers especially of religious influences.

    But yet, the FreakAngels are working to build anew now. At first they were just watching out for the people with them, which is a very noble thing to do, and now they are working on taking more people in, helping more people. That isn't the act of someone (or a group of people) who's evil/ "the bad guys".

    In the end, they're rather human. They each make choices, some that are good, and some that are bad, and some that lead to feelings of guilt. Of course, having a heavy sense of guild (such as what Miki has) shows that you aren't an evil person based on your wrong actions (in my opinion). Another thing to show they aren't the bad guys is not only do they feel bad about what they've done, but they avoid situations where something big, major, and bad like that could be done again.

    It kind of makes me think of Batman, the Dark Knight, the hero who's not always a good guy. Only, well, FA operates totally different than Batman ^^'
  3.  (7184.25)
    @AyakoNoChou said:
    Only, well, FA operates totally different than Batman ^^'

    I dunno... Both use force where & when necessary... that seems to be one of the defining methods of operation for each of them.
  4.  (7184.26)
    the world tends to go out of it's way to control or destroy extraordinary people,don't forget.
    so this time the mob and the government and the status quo got slapped down.
    perhaps it's just the will of nature.
  5.  (7184.27)
    @jimmyjungle
    I'd say that the world (by which I guess you mean human societies) actually tends to ignore and undervalue the majority of extraordinary people, but then I guess the type of extraordinary that the real world has to offer is a bit more difficult to identify than a dozen all-powerful psychics.
  6.  (7184.28)
    @Paul Duffield

    man, if only people had <strong>undervalued</strong> John Lennon, Ghandi, Martin Luther King and countless other progressionist thinkers just a little bit more maybe they'd still be here to help quicken this organism, our social antibodies keep terminating pregancies and letting viruses spread unchecked.
  7.  (7184.29)
    The other thing to bear in mind is that this particular narrative involves multiple characters.
    Short version: I'm sure the FA don't think with a hive mind (unless they all plug into each other, but even then everyone still has a voice and an individual will).
    Perhaps it is more curious to ask if each individual FreakAngel is a good/bad guy...
    Some of their intentions are easy to place, some not. But there are 12 of them. 12 strange children were born with a similar gift, but each of them is inclined to use that gift in a unique way. It's only natural that some of them would gravitate toward power/ domination, while others prefer a 'leave me the fuck alone so I can grow strawberries' approach. 10 of the 12 seem to share a common idea of 'let's clean up our mess a little bit,' but they're still 12 different characters.
    •  
      CommentAuthorkaiserdean
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
     (7184.30)
    I think this is a good example of sympathetic villains and condescending heroes. Like any group of people there good eggs and bad eggs among them and outsiders of the group will have their own opinions.

    Even if the FA were persecuted before the big bang, they've got a long way to go to redeem themselves and make up for what they did.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFoley
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
     (7184.31)
    "Even if the FA were persecuted before the big bang, they've got a long way to go to redeem themselves and make up for what they did."

    That's a matter of opinion.

    What exactly did they disrupt? An orderly world where people are kind, loving, and compassionate? Or a world where a group of kids are received as a threat just for being gifted, and are summarily hunted down by the military?

    Sure, they blew up the world. But who stopped to think that maybe the world isn't worth saving?

    Can anyone venture a guess as to what might have happened if the military successfully captured the gang before the cataclysm happened? They wouldn't have cured the "illness" they cited as the reason they gave chase after the kids, and they most certainly wouldn't have let them go. They would have studied the shit out of those kids until they all died of old age so they could weaponize the package. Now, would they have made it available to the public? Yes, but only after it becomes so widespread that it is no longer advantageous to hoard it and use it as a weapon system. But a government having scientific control of the package? Even a piece of the power that we've seen in action so far?

    I'm pretty damn sure that the conclusion to said scenario is worse than the flood will ever be. The Freakangels went a bit off the deep end and hurt a bunch of people in self defense, yes. Is it easy to speak in their defense, knowing what we know? You're goddamn skippy, it is. But are these guys bad?

    It's not very often that you see "bad guys" setting up humanitarian efforts in the forms of shelter, food, security, health care, construction, salvaging, and unfettered commerce.
    •  
      CommentAuthorHylianHearts
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010 edited
     (7184.32)
    Foley- you do have a point. It might actually be better that the FA "restarted" the world. I mean, where is it going now? Yes, there was a large loss of life and huge damage done tot he world, but nature would eventually wipe the slate clean on its own, as it has done in the past (like by way of the plague). The Angels hastened this turn around, but maybe that's not a bad thing over all, even if you don't think about what could be done with the package in Government hands. And they ARE doing what they can to help pick up the pieces and start fresh.

    In short, them making bad choices don't make them bad people.
    •  
      CommentAuthorscs
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2010
     (7184.33)
    If the FAs were either the good guys or the bad guys, this story would be a helluva lot less interesting.

    As for their destroying the world . . . one conspicuously missing fact (or rather, large collection of facts) is just why the army et. al. were pursuing them with so much force and yet with relative restraint. Were they simply being recaptured after a clever escape? Or had the FAs left behind a pile of corpses? If the FAs killed to escape, killed to get away from their pursuers, and then committed world-wide mass murder to stay free, I can't see much justification for their actions: it looks perfectly selfish to me. If on the other hand they escaped peaceably, tried to lay low, and then defended themselves without knowing how much damage their actions would cause, then it's a considerably different story.

    But that really just comes back to my first paragraph. Nothing is black and white here, and I doubt it will ever be made so. The FA world is full of greys, all shades of it. How they are reacting to it makes the story.
  8.  (7184.34)
    FA are just people, who can be bad, good, and all the nuances in between. Mark is too domineering, Luke is a shifty vile rapist and maybe Jack and Kirk are a bit "trigger happy". But the others are quite cool persons, expecially Arkady, Karl, KK and Sirkka. I think Sirkka has it right, by the way.If you remove all trace of rape, physical and mental, as if it neverhappened, you simply restore the victim to health. Some experiences better be forgotten
  9.  (7184.35)
    I agree with the comments above regarding Luke as Loki, but don't forget the OTHER great villain of history with a similar name.

    LUCIFER.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
     (7184.36)
    @longtimelurker: That connection(in my mind--I haven't quite worked it all out yet) goes to Mark.
  10.  (7184.37)
    @Fauxhammer

    OK then, it's both of them. Just thought it would be worth considering since they are called angels...
    • CommentAuthorAisforAmy
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010 edited
     (7184.38)
    I'm still wondering what the catalyst was that put them on the run in the first place. Which one (if any of them) tipped the scales and freaked someone out badly enough that the law and the military found out about them and got involved. Did their parents turn them in? So far, we've only heard little clues about their parents, and I'd like to know more.

    They might have been perceived as 'the bad guys' because of something they did that caused them to go on the run. Surely if one or two of them was in trouble for using the package recklessly, the others would have rallied together in an 'all for on' sort of way.

    They didn't mean to end the world; while what happened makes them stupid kids, I don't think it makes them (as a whole) the bad guys. They aren't exactly standing up and taking responsibility for what they did, but they are doing what they can without revealing their powers, to make the situation better where they can. I think it's what they choose to do now that will determine whether or not the turn out to be good or bad, just like everyone else.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
     (7184.39)
    @longtimelurker No, no, no; I think you're totally on base with the Lucifer connotation: he was in this group, but he rebelled and was cast out.
  11.  (7184.40)
    @Fauxhammer

    Exactly. Cast out precisely because he refused to serve mankind. Lucifer thought man should serve him.

    @AisforAmy

    We know by the time of the events shown in Book Four the kids had already been on the run for a while. We know they had been in conflict with the authorities long enough that nobody was bothering to take prisoners anymore. Mark was already talking about changing the world on their fourteenth birthday, and Arkady had her overdose at age 15. That's a full two to three years of playing with the package before the final confrontation at age 17. Luke mentioned that the official story had already undergone a couple of changes, from calling them "Sick Freaks" to "Angels of Death" and back again, which is probably how they created their name as a group. We also know the kids weren't always patient or careful. It may not have been one catalyst--it could have been a lot of things going progressively wrong, with the ordinary people becoming more and more frightened by the fact that these twelve kids already qualified as a global superpower and they hadn't even grown up yet.