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    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009 edited
     (7293.41)
    Then it snows in Peru for the first time in a hundred years. So it looks fishy.


    @martynozz That's not really a scientific method...

    "global warming" is not as good a description of what is going on as is "climate change". The first snow in Peru in a hundred years could well be a sign of climate change, since it is possible that many parts of the world may see extreme cold as well as heat.

    edit: anyway if climate change is a hoax I would be very, very happy...but I am not insane enough to believe that.
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009 edited
     (7293.42)
    Some parts of Peru are tall, and they have winter there: so if it preciptates there at all, it can be as snow.

    Some high mountains are called "dry" because it doesn't precipitate there at all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow

    Global warming might increase precipitation: http://www.google.ca/search?q=global+warming+rain

    So, there's nothing contradictory about global warming causing snow. In Canada in winter it's often too cold to snow: it's clear, sunny, and cold, any moisture having already been frozen out of the air: snow then is something that happens when it gets warmer: when there's warmer, moisture-laden air coming by.

    In a similar vein, I saw an article somewhere claim that global warming isn't happening, evidenced by there being more ice-bergs than ever in the antarctic ocean: and I thought, "Yeah, there are more icebergs than ever because the freaking glaciers are melting."
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      CommentAuthorcurb
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009
     (7293.43)
    Has anyone from the left or right thought to address climate change as a national security issue?


    I don't know, but I think they should be. I've seen more recent articles talking about the same issue, but this article from BBC goes some way to illustrate the impact that conflict exacerbated by or caused by climate change is already having:

    In 2007, 26 million people were driven from their homes by conflict. The effects of climate change - and conflict over limited resources like water, food and land - mean that every year, larger numbers of people are likely to be displaced.


    Given that the consensus seems to be that this problem will get worse before it gets better, I'd agree that climate change should be considered as a national security issue, even before you consider the cost of Katrina style disasters.
    • CommentAuthorLani
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009 edited
     (7293.44)
    The DOD has been aware of these potential problems for years, back even before Bush's second term. I remember reading these articles when them came out in 2004:

    The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare
    But recently, renowned Department of Defense planner Andrew Marshall sponsored a groundbreaking effort to come to grips with the question. A Pentagon legend, Marshall, 82, is known as the Defense Department's "Yoda"--a balding, bespectacled sage whose pronouncements on looming risks have long had an outsized influence on defense policy.

    Turning inward, the U.S. effectively seeks to build a fortress around itself to preserve resources. Borders are strengthened to hold back starving immigrants from Mexico, South America, and the Caribbean islands--waves of boat people pose especially grim problems. Tension between the U.S. and Mexico rises as the U.S. reneges on a 1944 treaty that guarantees water flow from the Colorado River into Mexico. America is forced to meet its rising energy demand with options that are costly both economically and politically, including nuclear power and onerous Middle Eastern contracts. Yet it survives without catastrophic losses.

    ...it runs through a number of other scenarios for other countries as well.

    And this article, which discussed the implications of the previous article:
    While the content of this release raises the alarm, Marshall is sending multiple messages. The timing of the Fortune article, for instance. For a man of Marshall's long legacy of discretion to directly challenge the current administration's line on global warming at the beginning of a presidential election year speaks volumes. That he chose to do so by releasing a report by respected business consultants in Fortune magazine seems to say he wants the business world, Bush's most important constituency, to understand clearly that the status quo is untenable.
    • CommentAuthorKosmopolit
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009
     (7293.45)
    "Then it snows in Peru for the first time in a hundred years. So it looks fishy."

    Oh, for fuck's sake, Peru is in the Andes.

    They have ski resorts there.

    • CommentAuthorKosmopolit
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009
     (7293.46)
    The article Marty is probably basing his "snows for the first time in 100 years line on."

    Almost 250 children under the age of five have died in a wave of intensely cold weather in Peru.

    Children die from pneumonia and other respiratory infections every year during the winter months particularly in Peru's southern Andes.

    But this year freezing temperatures arrived almost three months earlier than usual.

    Experts blame climate change for the early arrival of intense cold which began in March.

    ...


    The extreme cold, which has brought snow, hail, freezing temperatures and strong winds, has killed more children than recorded annually for the past four years.

    ...
    Meanwhile in the capital, Lima, it has become an annual ritual for businesses and ordinary citizens to donate blankets, clothes and food for the victims of the cold weather in the south of the country.


    link
    • CommentAuthorKosmopolit
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009 edited
     (7293.47)
    Oh and in case anyone thinks one cold winter in one country proves anything:

    http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/warming-trend-seen-in-temperature-records/



    Record cold temperatures are still occurring in the US - but they're outnumbered 2 to 1 by new record hot temperatures.

    Surprise, the global weather system is really, really complicated and raising the average temperature by half a degree per decade doesn't mean it gets warmer everywhere continuously and at a constant rate. Just like the summer solstice isn't necessarily the hottest day of the year.
  1.  (7293.48)
    I guess you've all seen this rebuttal by now;