Whitechapel - WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? Sun, 26 May 2013 00:37:51 -0700 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.4 & Feed Publisher WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17880#Comment_17880 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17880#Comment_17880 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:26:14 -0800 joe.distort or
it is 1978, and you just heard MIDDLE CLASS or THE MISFITS
or
it is 1982, and you just heard NAPALM DEATH or THE NEOS
or
it is 1996, and you just heard ATARI TEENAGE RIOT or MAN IS THE BASTARD or CROSSED OUT or CHARLES BRONSON

...and you thought to yourself, "where the hell can things go from here?"
well, its 2008, well into what we wouldve called "the future" in the 80s. where do you see extreme music in five years time? styles, instruments, speed, influences-i wanna hear what you think. then, and only then, will i chime in. i have some very specific predictions, and i wanna hear yrs first. LETS GO! ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17894#Comment_17894 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17894#Comment_17894 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:19:00 -0800 Oddcult WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17905#Comment_17905 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17905#Comment_17905 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:46:06 -0800 ARES WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17911#Comment_17911 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17911#Comment_17911 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:00:33 -0800 joe.distort WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17914#Comment_17914 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17914#Comment_17914 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:09:18 -0800 offtandiscord
personally i think the biggest development will be mixing genres together more and more, but succesfully... ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17936#Comment_17936 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17936#Comment_17936 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:16:10 -0800 liquidcow
If you went back and played some of today's music to someone of a few decades ago, it may well seem incomprehensible to them, and it's the same with the music of the future. I'm not imagining some kind of space music, just that it would be something we are very unaccustomed to.

But I guess I'm talking about the far future... I know maybe people have always said it, but with bands like the Berzerker, Nile, Akercocke, reaching speeds well past 200BPM, I don't know if it's possible for musicians to play much faster. As for all this 'technical' stuff (whatever 'technical' really means I think is up for debate), I don't know how much longer that can go on. I think Meshuggah's new one seems to show that there's only so much they can do with their formula. I'm not saying Meshuggah do this (I'm thinking more of DEP and others), but relying on constant tempo changes and unusual time signatures isn't really a musical style in itself, and eventually it will wear out. Then again, there's plenty of bands doing the Neurosis-meets-Godspeed thing and making it ultra slow and dramatic as well. There is no one particular direction that music is headed in anymore, in 5 years time, who knows, there will be lots of bands doing lots of different things, I doubt much of it will have not been done before, but you never know. I don't think that many artists have emerged in the last 5 years who are doing something incredibly new, I've mostly been discovering bands who've been around for a while already. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17964#Comment_17964 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17964#Comment_17964 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:41:00 -0800 joe.distort If you went back and played some of today's music to someone of a few decades ago, it may well seem incomprehensible to them, and it's the same with the music of the future. I'm not imagining some kind of space music, just that it would be something we are very unaccustomed to.

thats kind of where i am going with this...my prediction for new types of extreme sounds is that we probably cant guess it. i have a feeling that tech grind will advance to the point where it is almost just power electronics with a fast as fuck beat to it, power violence will stay about the same because the scene is saturated with traditionalists, bands like AN ALBATROSS will get way more psychedelic rather than faster, and black metal will become something indecipherable from the originators of that sound started with. i do think that SOMETHING will come along that we just will have never seen coming, but i dont even know where to begin guessing. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17965#Comment_17965 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17965#Comment_17965 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:46:12 -0800 JaredRules Glitched out techno mindfucks. Laptop bands are the wave of the future. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17985#Comment_17985 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17985#Comment_17985 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:32:11 -0800 omer333 WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17986#Comment_17986 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=17986#Comment_17986 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:32:55 -0800 Exploder WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18002#Comment_18002 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18002#Comment_18002 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:08:41 -0800 williac
DEP and ATR sounded like the future at one point, but they feel a little dated now.

We're going to continue to mix genres from all eras. I love how music never dies. I just waits.

Guitars, drums, synths and computers. Computers are practically indispensable, but having seen a handful of laptop bands, I have to say it's just an awful live show. Extreme music benefits too much from an active stage presence. I suspect it informs the process as well. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18005#Comment_18005 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18005#Comment_18005 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:24:56 -0800 JaredRules YACHT for example. Though he's by no means "Extreme."
His early stuff is pretty wild though. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18023#Comment_18023 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18023#Comment_18023 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:36:15 -0800 Kernowdrunk
Live performamce with laptops is always in danger of becoming a powerpoint presentation meeting , or the gig equivelent of someone hogging the Playstation. At least put the computer in a wicker basket or wrap it in meat for God's sake.... ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18029#Comment_18029 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18029#Comment_18029 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:23:21 -0800 Dracko WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18034#Comment_18034 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18034#Comment_18034 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:43:53 -0800 Vespers
Currently, noise is what you put on at parties and go to hell for. Or you sit around, all three of you that like it, pointing out to everyone who sneaks back in for a drink how awesome it is. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18036#Comment_18036 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18036#Comment_18036 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:52:11 -0800 frenchbloke WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18038#Comment_18038 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18038#Comment_18038 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:18:26 -0800 olivertwisted
- omer333

The whole extreme doom thing looked like it was going to be making big waves with bands like Sunn0))) getting exposure in mainstream magazines and UK acts like Electric Wizard garnering a big fan base. The whole thing looked poised to take over the world circa 2004 but for whatever reason it never really happened.

- Dracko

I can't really see noise as the next big thing. It's been around for far too long. How long have Whitehouse been around now? Or Boyd Rice? Or Merzbow? It's an old fucking scene.

My feeling is that the next big thing will come swarming up out of the grindcore scene. That seems to be where the pretentious, arty people with a head full of rabid monkeys currently hang their hats. All those tiny little digital grind bands experimenting with every kind of weird permutation under the sun. No one cares at the moment because no one has quite got it right yet but I think they might. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18046#Comment_18046 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18046#Comment_18046 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:29:44 -0800 Dracko
Of course, noise rock in itself is more likely to kick off in that respect. If and when it does, I wonder if it will follow with the seemingly inevitable neo-folk music that noise rock artists either come from or decide to become.

Either way, maybe noise won't make it big, but I do not doubt that it will garner media attention, at the very least, quite soon. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18049#Comment_18049 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18049#Comment_18049 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:45:48 -0800 offtandiscord TRENCHER are the future of grind! casio grindcore... genius. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18055#Comment_18055 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18055#Comment_18055 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:16:44 -0800 olivertwisted
Maybe you're right, Noise Rock possibly has a future that pure Noise just doesn't have. I doubt Neo-Folk will be able to cross the chasm until it shakes itself of the far right associations. Being called a Nazi (rightly or wrongly) don't tend to do much for your music sales.

- offtandiscord

I saw Trencher a few years ago and they were fantastic. The sight of a bearded weirdo crouched over a milk crate, screaming and hammering out these tinny little riffs on a keyboard less than a foot long will stay with me forever.

They're an extreme example of the kind of thing that I could see making the leap into mass awareness, extreme music that reacts against the po-faced. There's a bunch of electronic bands producing breakcore and gabba that incorporates 8-bit video game melodies produced using Gameboy technology. I can see something interesting and salable developing out of this melting pot of surreal ideas. There's nothing there yet that quite works but it does seem to be a scene where there's a lot of musicians looking for something new and different.

I'll be interested to see if the new Ghengis Tron album makes waves. It's certainly being bigged up. If it does then that might point the way of the future. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18058#Comment_18058 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18058#Comment_18058 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:24:59 -0800 Dracko
With post-rock: That seems on the money. I somehow suspect something more akin to Jesu will grow bigger before Pelican does, but then again, Isis has been fairly promoted by Tool, so who knows? ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18059#Comment_18059 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18059#Comment_18059 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:26:28 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18088#Comment_18088 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18088#Comment_18088 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:36:25 -0800 joe.distort WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18123#Comment_18123 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18123#Comment_18123 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:32:47 -0800 Nil
As mentioned, I think some of the new and exciting stuff is going to come from crossover between the various extreme genres. There's already been some noise / extreme metal crossover (Merzbow have collaborated with Boris, Sunn 0))) and Gore Beyond Necropsy), there's a lot of potential in extreme electronica / metal crossover (Tourette Syndrom's Gabbergrind and the recent breakcore / metal stuff - Bong-Ra's Grindkrusher, Drumcorps' Grist and that Ted Maul album everyone seems to be talking about). Beyond that, I'm not really sure - Alec Empire vs. Merzbow Live CBGB's NYC 1998 showed exciting possibilities for further breakcore / digital hardcore /noise crossover, but I've not heard anything beyond that.

One thing I've noticed recently, which may be slightly off-topic, is the gradual bleed-through of chiptune stuff into the mainstream - I've heard several tracks in clubs with definite chiptune elements to them (I'm pretty sure one was by Kanye West). Come to think of it, there have been some links between the chip scene and various extreme scenes before - the Nintendocore of HORSE the Band, Alec Empire's Nintendo Teenage Robots, DJ Scotch Egg's chiptune / gabber / breakcore and some of the stuff on the 20kbps records netlabel (overthrustr's METH DATE DANCE PARTY in particular).

In short - I don't know, but it's going to be exciting. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18152#Comment_18152 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18152#Comment_18152 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:11:28 -0800 joe.distort
i have to disagree that the grind scene itself will just attempt to out-gore each other though, as that evolutionary dead end seems to have reached its peak (same goes for porno grind, quite possibly the most embarrasing relative of punk/hardcore imaginable). i do think the hipster/art school grind/chaosviolence scene of the past 5 years or so has yet to truly produce something that i think it is capable of spawning, even thought there has been a bunch of great, challenging music coming out of it.

i am very interested in this touretts syndrom you talk about-sounds right up my alley. i checked out drumcorps on someones suggestion on here and was very pleased.

and i totally agree with williac, AN ALBATROSS was so perfect for a period of time, tyhat i am almost scared to listen to their new album. crazy fun live, too. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18176#Comment_18176 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18176#Comment_18176 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:03:31 -0800 Jason_Thibault Cool topic thread.

I think you're right about various influences converging. I think the extreme music scene has branched out into so many sub-genres, that it now resembles the techno scene of the early 1990's. L.A.'s Murderfest at the Knitting Factory in April is a pretty good barometer of what's happening today in extreme music. 3 days of craziness. Wish I could go.

I saw Polish Death Metallers, Behemoth in a smaller club here in Vancouver 2 years ago and I don't think a human could possibly drum faster than that. I've seen Napalm Death a half-dozen times and that was always like being trapped in a chamber of heaviness. Today is the Day & The Locust were pretty mental as well.

Discordance Axis were one of the more extreme acts on the high treble end of the grindcore scene. And as olivertwisted mentioned above, the noise scene has been around for decades. Whitehouse has been pissing people and governments off since the 1980's.

Sunno))) and Halo (2-piece from Melbourne, Australia) probably hold the crowns for sheer heaviness.
DEP, Cephalic Carnage and Genghis Tron have taken tech-extreme fuckery to it's outer limits.

So where do we go from here? I know I was excited as hell when Dave Witte (drummer of Burnt By The Sun) was going to play live drums for Agoraphobic Nosebleed. But it fell through.
Whatever the next level is, it'll probably end up on Relapse Records, Hydra Head Industries or one of their brethren labels. It won't be hard to find. The internet speeds things up a million times.
-Jay ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18183#Comment_18183 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18183#Comment_18183 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:25:42 -0800 joe.distort
oh and about murderfest: i was unbelieavably pissed i couldnt get out for DESPISE YOU's first live show ever!! it is a small consolation prize that their 5th show ever will be here in phoenix.... ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18191#Comment_18191 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18191#Comment_18191 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:44:02 -0800 hmobius
Godflesh -> Jesu
Death -> Opeth
Napalm Death -> Converge \ Devil Driver (I'll get stick for this one)

Wherever it goes I don't think it will be determined by how loud \ heavy it gets. It seems to be more about how layered and (sub)genre-bending it is for now.

And I'd add in another date into joe.distort's original post. 1994 - City by Strapping Young Lad. when extreme music met Phil Spector's wall of sound. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18203#Comment_18203 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18203#Comment_18203 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:05:54 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18215#Comment_18215 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18215#Comment_18215 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:42:04 -0800 sinestetici
To those talking about "neofolk", I'de love it if you would take a min to check out this fella:

http://www.myspace.com/iamdof *or* http://www.iamdof.com

As far as I'm concerned he helped pioneer what is becoming a huge genre idea (neofolk). I think you would like it.

Also...I think music is going to start experimenting with what I call "negative space"; Burial is a great example of what I'm talking about here. Sometimes it's almost what you don't hear in a track that makes it so fucking amazing. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18217#Comment_18217 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18217#Comment_18217 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:45:06 -0800 TacoHugsPHD Xrin Arms and to an extent Otto Von Schirach. And we're seeing stuff snake back around. I had a chat w/ Benn Flashbulb about how he was listening to the new Venetian Snares w/ DEP and they were freaking out. If anyone can figure out how to bring the rythmical intensity of VSnares into a live band I'd put my money on DEP.

The underground is pretty ripe right now as well. I was talking to Anthony/Xrin Arms when he was living w/ a mate of mine and he's getting ready to mount his 2nd Nationwide tour. The first got him some bread money at the end of the day and pushed his art out there even more.

Taking things out of the "extreme" box I think one of the most interesting developments in this last year has been Hip Hop embracing a 4/4 traditional house pulse as a production school. People are more willing to shake it to a sparse 4/4 slice of retro future and we've seen some interesting permutations in bass and drum patterns. The NYC Drop the Lime/Curses!, Passions and Math Head production trio are tossing out some really amazing stuff boiling down drum and bass, grime/dubstep, and detroit techno into this thick, ropey, heavy as hell dance floor napalm.

Then over in Japan I'm really digging their neo rave scene centered around the Guhroovy record store in Shibuya. Producers w/ song writing chops and excellent production scenes are re-interpreting Hardcore/Gabba culture in a post-IDM, kid606, mash-up world and making tracks for their own subculture. Stuff in the orbit of Sharpnel Sounds, Maddest Chikdom, Accelaracore, and Rendarec labels have been blowing my mind consistently over the last two years. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18222#Comment_18222 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18222#Comment_18222 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:53:14 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18226#Comment_18226 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18226#Comment_18226 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:57:05 -0800 warrenellis http://blodvargr.blogspot.com/. Be warned, there is a lot of Nazi shit associated with the neofolk/martial fields. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18236#Comment_18236 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18236#Comment_18236 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:56:11 -0800 alwayscrashing
A (mostly) annual music festival I am involved with often has a neo-folk act on the bill. Sol Invictus in 2006 and Sieben in 2007. Both I'd recommend to anyone very highly.

Sol Invictus
Sieben ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18243#Comment_18243 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18243#Comment_18243 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:27:39 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18326#Comment_18326 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18326#Comment_18326 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:18:41 -0800 omer333
Do we need to be thinking in a "metal" spectrum for extreme music though? Don't get me wrong, I love metal, but I've found myself looking for music that pushes boundaries in ways that metal or punk isn't.

I would say that TV on The Radio is extreme in the sense that they are just going for it on every song and making some amazing sounds. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18375#Comment_18375 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18375#Comment_18375 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:14:02 -0800 Nil
On the music side of things, I can't believe I forgot to mention The Berzerker - one of the prime examples of a band mixing extreme techno and brutal death metal, with ear-blowing results. Also, I recently read an interview with Whitehouse where they claimed that the noise scene has become very rulebound, with a lot of people having an idea of what ought to constitute "noise". Indeed, that's apparently how they got their latest album name - someone told them that what they were doing was no longer "noise" but just "a bloody racket", or words to that effect.

I would also like to mention Keiji Haino (specifically as part of the free-rock ensemble Fushitsusha) as providing not so much a "where can things go from here" moment so much as a "what the fuck is that" moment for me. Definitely one of the things that got me into extreme music - I wasn't sure if I liked it, but the idea that someone could get up on stage and howl into the microphone with seemingly no care for what other people thought was exciting to me, and I wanted to hear more.

Finally, Mike Patton's "Ipecac" label is worth watching to find out what's coming next. Their catalogue is frankly bizarre and tends to be a little patchy, but they've released some stunning records - The Locust's Safety Second, Body Last EP, The Melvins and Lustmord's Pigs of the Roman Empire and Dalek's Absence stand out for me in particular.

Sorry, I may be veering off-topic here. I'll try to post some predictions in a bit when my brain is slightly more active. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18381#Comment_18381 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18381#Comment_18381 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:59:47 -0800 warrenellis WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18400#Comment_18400 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18400#Comment_18400 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:46:50 -0800 frenchbloke i remember the band extreme. they weren't.
same applied to the new radicals. neither new nor radical. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18408#Comment_18408 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18408#Comment_18408 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:26:51 -0800 joe.distort
mike patton is an extemely open minded guy, in a scattershot of very disparate genres- he has released/worked with a straaaange mix of styles/acts. i may not always like what he is working with, but i sure as hell respect that he does whatever he wants. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18429#Comment_18429 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18429#Comment_18429 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:03:27 -0800 offtandiscord
bezerker are pretty cool, i think i prefered it once they dropped the masks though... plus they started as a one man speedcore dj gabba stylee project, then turned to live stuff.

ALSO, pendulum are pushing things in drum'n'bass a lot, the past few years at least. funnily enough, they started out as a metal band... ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18435#Comment_18435 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18435#Comment_18435 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:57:53 -0800 Nil WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18436#Comment_18436 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18436#Comment_18436 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:03:17 -0800 Jon Wake
"Expand your horizons," says I, "In five years, all metal will sound like this." ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18439#Comment_18439 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18439#Comment_18439 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:10:35 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18443#Comment_18443 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18443#Comment_18443 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:59:43 -0800 Oddcult
Oddly, in the heathen/asatru scene, the term 'folkish' has come to be a euphemism for white supremacist tendencies. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18444#Comment_18444 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18444#Comment_18444 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:17:22 -0800 warrenellis WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18446#Comment_18446 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18446#Comment_18446 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:24:39 -0800 olivertwisted
That ain't much of a surprise. The Nazis were often described as belonging to the Volkisch Movement (not least by themselves) in their tendency to romanticise the simple, traditional life of the German peasant. Crudely rendered into English that translates as folkish. The euphemism is supremely apt. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18449#Comment_18449 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18449#Comment_18449 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:29:59 -0800 Trotsky Edgard Varêse and the Poeme Electronique.


I doubt that something could really be shocking or extreme sonically anymore.
We've all been "beaten into submission with sound" so many times now, we would have to let it cool down for a while, and then maybe be we could surprise someone or be surprised ourselves.


and... greater acceptance equates to lesser extremity...
(yes, I realize that statement is pretentious as fuck, BUT..)
That's always something I look out for. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18450#Comment_18450 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18450#Comment_18450 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:36:16 -0800 joe.distort "Expand your horizons," says I, "In five years, all metal will sound like this."

yeah the locust just came through here last week or so with TERRRRRIBLE mall metal bands. this quote busts me up, because that is what i thought he first time i saw the locust...in 1999. looks like they still havent infected everyones brain. its ok, i find them to be super boring live now compared to the basement/house shows where they would literally get in fist fights with people and each other. i do lke that SOME GIRLS and THE HOLY MOLAR still play small crazyass shows, well maybe not the molar. i dont actually know if they do now that i think about it. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18475#Comment_18475 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18475#Comment_18475 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:31:22 -0800 Brent Wilcox
A lot of "extreme" music has quietly slipped into the mainsteam over the past 20 years - as I can tell when I hear things in car commercials today that would have elicited "what the hell is that weird shit!" phone calls to my radio show in 1981. We've absorbed a full palette of video game and urban noises. We don't hear things the same way we used to in 1980.

R. Murray Schaffer had an intersting essay on the "soundscape", the evolution of the sonic environment over the centuries. One interesting observation involved "loudness".
Time was when The Church was the loudest thing in the local environment - church bells and such. Loudness equaled social dominance. Over time, that dominance eroded. Chamber Music developed "in chambre" to isolated it from the increasing noise of the rabble outside, @etc. The ability to be the loudest sound around became a massively populist thing.

I could rephrase the opening question... It's 1970 and you just heard DEREK BAILEY. Now what?
Or how about... it's 1952 and you just heard John Cage's 4'33"... ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18488#Comment_18488 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18488#Comment_18488 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:25:17 -0800 warrenellis Time was when The Church was the loudest thing in the local environment - church bells and such. Loudness equaled social dominance.

...actually, that's a bloody good, and interesting, point. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18493#Comment_18493 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18493#Comment_18493 Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:58:18 -0800 Brent Wilcox ...actually, that's a bloody good, and interesting, point.

Though a weekend in a college dorm before the era of Walkmans (and iPods) could have led to the same observation (the King Crimson vs Grateful Dead Stereo System War of 1976), it does make an interesting model of social evolution. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18540#Comment_18540 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18540#Comment_18540 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:24:02 -0800 Richard Kadrey (775.50)
Heh... I used do US promo work for the Extreme Music label. (They released that 50-disc MERZBOX...)

I used to have the Merzbox! It was stolen with some of my other gear years ago when I was moving. My only consolation was imagining the crackheads or pseudo-tough guy teenybopper bandits putting on some of the discs and getting instant migraines.
I just ran across a pile of my old Extreme CDs a couple of weeks back (O Yuki Conjugate, Shinjuku Thief, Muslimgauze and a few others). Back when I was doing a lot of music writing, Extreme was one of my favorite labels. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18592#Comment_18592 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18592#Comment_18592 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:28:45 -0800 aduckworth because the music was so underground that they had to create their own tape-trading network in order to distribute it at all -- but now there are people who fetishize over tape-trading culture and go out of their way to make sure their music is distributed on the most inconvenient media possible. There is just nothing extreme about this stuff anymore -- of course, to me this doesn't necessarily mean there is no GOOD music, just that the "extreme" factor no longer exists.

I think this has a lot to do with the evolution of western music history, and particularly its distribution. When you think about it, it used to take hundreds of years for there to be a major shift in the direction of music, but once technology started kicking in for better distribution (amplification, radio, records, etc.) that's when genres started evolving more quickly -- jazz was dominating for a while, then blues, soul, rock, pop, punk, metal, hip-hop, techno, etc. (NOTE: this list is of course making huge generalizations, so please forgive them). The 20th century really was the most concentrated period for the evolution of western music, and I think a lot of the shock value and "extreme" characteristics of music made during the last century really depended on the fact that the culture was still adapting to this tendency toward rapid change. Today of course, there are tons of different ways to distribute one's music -- which didn't use to be the case -- and not only that, but there are ways to PERMANENTLY distribute music now via the internet, so that your albums never even go out of print. People growing up in this environment are not likely to experience music culture in the same ways that people once did.

That said, I think any future evolution toward "extremity" in music is going to have to come from beyond the music itself and reach beyond the aesthetic confines of genre. There was once a time when new genres were legitimately shocking and even subversive, but now that the very idea of being "shocking" and/or "subversive" is part of the casual lore in mainstream music consciousness, it's hard to say what's next. At the moment people seem to think that finding just the right combo of perverse pre-existing influences is what's going to give them their unique edge which will propel them into infamy, but I think this is awfully novel thinking. Again, this isn't to say there isn't any GOOD music out there (because their certainly is) -- just that so many people are thinking in wide-eyed terms, constantly searching for the next big genius musical idea in the most surface-oriented way, when the fact is that most of their influences were born out of social and historical conditions which they will never again experience. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18595#Comment_18595 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18595#Comment_18595 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:11 -0800 Randy74 Meaning i am pretty much agreeing with Aducks statements above, i know a lot of younger kids that listen to a lot of so called extreme music nowadays and they burn me stuff, wether its shock value, lyrics or just the way the instruments are played or manipulated i think at this point its all been done.

I see more kids wearing Ramones & Misfits shirts now more than when they were originally around...
now only if more kids "got" DEVO...


I think lyrically and instrumentally, music has hit a definable wall...although there will always be your Zappas, Pattons, and Captain Beefhearts, bands like Ween...with every gen i still think its all been done, just my opinion...with rock & roll everyone's been imitatng Chuck Berry for 50+ years...

after scanning youtube on a slow sunday, i forgot how much i loved this video, and haven't seen it since 87? til now

forgive me for deviating from the topic at hand



even the mediocre songs are so damn good.. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18605#Comment_18605 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18605#Comment_18605 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:08:41 -0800 Oddcult
Or did people say the same thing about Black Sabbath, and I'm just an old fart now?

On the loudness as social dominance thing - I've thought something similar about the annoying twats who play music on their phones on the bus, or when walking along the street. It's an extra way of exaggerating a strut or slouch. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18624#Comment_18624 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18624#Comment_18624 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:16:09 -0800 warrenellis Okay, Merzbow - seriously, what the fuck? No, really. Does anyone actually enjoy it? I mean, I can enjoy the effect it has on people, and I suppose I see the point of going there when no one else really has, but is it really listenable-to by humans?

ELECTRIC DRESS is more listenable than, say, METAL MACHINE MUSIC (which probably remains the perimeter case for electronic noise) -- but only because it can't really be listened to -- it works best, like a lot of Eno's ambient stuff, as something you move in and out of. And it remains the only Merzbow I can actually stand to play. Everything else makes me just want to kick him in wherever his cock used to be. I've heard MERZBEAT has its moments, but I will probably never find out.

I think he's done a bit of remix work that wasn't horrible.

Ultimately, to me, Merzbow is what Tony Wilson said about jazz -- you can always spot jazz from the way the performers are enjoying themselves more than the audience are. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18626#Comment_18626 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18626#Comment_18626 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:27:45 -0800 Trotsky
I take personal offense at the statement that "Everything the artist 'spits' is art"
I know from first hand experince that it's not-- a lot of it is just shit.

Over-saturation of the market breeds nothing but contempt. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18627#Comment_18627 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18627#Comment_18627 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:35:32 -0800 warrenellis I know from first hand experince that it's not-- a lot of it is just shit.


Mine glows. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18630#Comment_18630 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18630#Comment_18630 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:44:32 -0800 Jon Wake
What is interesting is fringe music. It's not mainstream, it will never be mainstream, but its pulled influences out the twisted little backspaces of music and meld them into something new. Yeah, the scene heads will whine that they sold out, that they aren't hardest of the hard core no more, but they've melded things to create a new take on a sound. Sleepytime Gorilla Museum takes chunks of industrial, jazz, prog rock, and noise to make something new that isn't easily categorized because the category doesn't exist yet.

The Locusts won't sell out a concert venue, but they're accessible enough to people that they'll influence other people's sounds without demanding that they marry themselves to an inbred scene. Fringe music, like fringe ecologies, is where new species are born. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18631#Comment_18631 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18631#Comment_18631 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:50:49 -0800 Trotsky Mine glows.


that's what you get for deriving your substance entirely through an ethernet cable.

:p ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18640#Comment_18640 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18640#Comment_18640 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:27:14 -0800 Brent Wilcox

As for Merzbow, I'm glad I never had to actually promote the Merzbox. I dabbled in raw noise myself for a while, but structure's where the fun is.Though the brain creates order out of noise, so it's all literally in the ear of the listener. I did hear Merzbow live once in NYC, and it was incredibly visceral - the effect no doubt of high decibels on the endocrine system or some such. But if I want loud, I prefer Glenn Branca's 25-guitar ensembles.

I found Metal Machine Music good for bouts of intensive house cleaning... vacuuming was like playing along - "Noise minus One"

Of course, there are varieties of "extreme" are aren't simply loud - extremely slow, extremely quiet, extremely odd, extremely bad...


I agree that "fringe music" is more interesting, because a lot of it exists in its own continuum, and therefore has a certain timelessness that shock-value trend-chasing doesn't.
I'd put my own music in that category, because it has next-to-nothing to do with the mainstream, and frankly some of the things I did 25-30 years ago still hold up on their own terms - terms outside the vocabulary of the mainstream. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18695#Comment_18695 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18695#Comment_18695 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:47:02 -0800 frenchbloke WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18789#Comment_18789 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18789#Comment_18789 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 09:53:39 -0800 TacoHugsPHD
Noise/Exreme music as party music? Example: Wolfs Eyes and related.

I spent all my time in Michigan (25 years) fully within the radius of Yipsilani/Ann Arbor to experience the birth of the Wolf Eyes fringe music basement party and seen the influence it has had on other musicians (see Andrew W.K.). Noise + Rythem + Hedonism = ???

Maybe this is next. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18796#Comment_18796 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18796#Comment_18796 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:10:19 -0800 Mike Black If you listen to old extreme metal albums, they often sounds like a blur, but newer ones which have higher production values are far more clear, which gives you some idea of what bands in the past might have been aiming for.

That was sort of what they were going for - like Mayhem and Deathcrush.

No one's topping to Norwegian movement in terms of "extreme". Anaal Nathrakh tried, but it didn't happen. Maybe one day someone will figure out a way to surpass the Norwegian sound, but it's been at the top for nearly twenty years now, and I doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon.

As far as where it's going, it's going to be experimentation for a long time. Dying Fetus has some really interesting things going on, but metal is split right now between the white belts and everyone else. We'll probably see a resurgence of Death Metal in reaction to the New Wave of American Thrash Metal, and the lull in Black Metal as a whole. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18962#Comment_18962 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18962#Comment_18962 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:26:57 -0800 liquidcow
But yeh like someone said, this whole 'extreme' thing, does it really make a band more extreme if they play faster and louder than everyone else, especially if what they're playing is essentially boring? ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18973#Comment_18973 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=18973#Comment_18973 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:08:05 -0800 Brent Wilcox ....does it really make a band more extreme if they play faster and louder than everyone else, especially if what they're playing is essentially boring?


Boredom is the New Extreme ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19003#Comment_19003 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19003#Comment_19003 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:31:06 -0800 tulpa The way I rate noise and such is on how fun it is to listen to it. The whole point of the genre to me is that it's fun, when done by people not overly fascinated with pushing the borders of what can be considered enjoyable. Boredoms are fun. Merzbow is not.

I'll agree with the assessment that fringe music is usually at the frontier of musical experimentation. Stuff like Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Man Man, or Uz Jsme Doma can't clearly be categorized because it is genuinely different music, and while they'll never break into the mainstream, they will influence the bands around them with these unique sounds. These fringe bands are the future of music, though not directly. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19038#Comment_19038 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19038#Comment_19038 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:12:19 -0800 omer333 I am tempted to close this thread simply because half-bright pop band TV on The Radio has been cited as "extreme" music.

I beg for your tender mercies. I will go wake my neighbors up by cranking all the Ministry and High on Fire CDs I have by aiming the speakers at the floor as my penance. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19113#Comment_19113 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19113#Comment_19113 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:24:09 -0800 Cavemonster They're a good example of how elements of noise can be incorporated into noise rock that has a pretty wide following if you can't exactly call it mainstream quite yet. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19115#Comment_19115 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19115#Comment_19115 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:49:05 -0800 Kernowdrunk is the best way of moving forward. That way mainstream acceptance lies. Otherwise you're just one bearded reader of The Wire waving at another bunch of bearded readers of The Wire.


And I speak as a bearded reader of The Wire whose true ideal would be to make and hear music that makes pop tarts dance against their wills to twisted metal and bloodflow samples. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19192#Comment_19192 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19192#Comment_19192 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:18:49 -0800 screaming meat
“
I could rephrase the opening question... It's 1970 and you just heard DEREK BAILEY. Now what?
Or how about... it's 1952 and you just heard John Cage's 4'33"...
”

Exactly, it goes even further than that: Why not… It’s 1923 and you’ve just head Arnold Schoenberg’s Suite for Piano, Op. 25… It’s 1913 and you’ve just heard Stravinsky’s The Rite of Spring: do you join in the rioting? Sod it, it’s the middle ages and you’ve just heard a tri-tone. As long as there has been a society to define what art and music should be there will always be people to show us what it could be.

@Kernow:

“
Getting people to dance and sing along to extreme tones , twisted and atonal source materiel and outright unholy noise is the best way of moving forward. That way mainstream acceptance lies. Otherwise you're just one bearded reader of The Wire waving at another bunch of bearded readers of The Wire
.”

I think the mainstream has a habit of absorbing fringe elements over time. Defangs them, makes them acceptable. Look at Punk, Mods and the heavy metal entrants in the Eurovision Song contest of late.

Considering we are discussing the future of extreme music no one has pointed out the obvious. Music has always been pushed forward by technology. We’ve hit rocks and skins, moved to blowing flutes and plucking strings (YEH GODS! That rhymed…); valves on trumpets, Clavichords to Harpsichords to Piano – I’m mean the list is pretty much endless. Electronics have made us capable of producing music a musician from fifty years ago couldn’t have even considered.

If music is pushed forward by technology then musical extremists are always there to push the technology and the listeners: Merzbow, for instance, masturbates (that’s in his own words) technology to create some truly awe inspiring pieces that pretty much push any audience to breaking point. Going back further and at risk of repeating myself - Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring had to have an orchestra of virtuoso players to conquer its sheer sprawling insanity and that’s forgetting the audience who were apparently rioting.

So, the whole ‘Victorian Synthesiser’ thread opened my eyes quite a bit (Thanks Vanessa… it is Vanessa, right?). It’s not going to be about exploring structure, timbre and harmony – not anymore. It’s going to be about how we receive it. A few steps into the future we’ll have neural interfaces (aren’t they being developed by the air force for fighter-jets?): our brains will be stimulated directly by the music (goodbye ears) which opens up a slew of possibilities. Imagine a live gig: One man on stage with a tiny, tiny paper thin laptop and 300 people(familiar, so far) with holes in the back of their heads dancing and NO music: It’ll all be in their minds. It’s a frightening image. If it works that way, why not in reverse? Composing music directly onto hard-drive from your brain? What else… how about music being considered differently – as purely vibrations of varying intensity directed onto specific sections of the brain for particular responses (not wholly original but certainly not the norm). Christ – imagine what Merzbow would do with that kind of technology – it’d be like having a dentist drill in your brain-hole… ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19221#Comment_19221 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19221#Comment_19221 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:22:36 -0800 Tim Stockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet is the most extreme thing I have heard.

4 helicopters circling above a football stadium, beaming down unearthly discords into 4 giant banks of speakers and TV monitors, the whole thing synchronised with the beat of the rotors. And almost certainly a lot louder than this rather lame youtube clip. That's what it's all about. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19256#Comment_19256 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19256#Comment_19256 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:02:46 -0800 Curiosity WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19347#Comment_19347 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19347#Comment_19347 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:14:24 -0800 paulmcenery
You know what's extreme? That Stockhausen piece in D for organ, a single breve where semibreve = 1 hour.

However, people looking for the future of glitchy timbral music could do worse than Keith Rowe's latest, The Room. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19359#Comment_19359 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19359#Comment_19359 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:24:05 -0800 Telecart
As per the future of extreme music, I believe that would be this.


and, you know, fucking dubstep. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19395#Comment_19395 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19395#Comment_19395 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:26:49 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19401#Comment_19401 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19401#Comment_19401 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:35:24 -0800 joe.distort
but the marketing irritates the piss out of me. It's as meaningful as calling a slightly steeper skateboard ramp or a Vin Diesel movie extreme.


the extreme music label wasnt something i was using to try to compare to mountain dew or the warped tour. it is the catch all that is frequently used by the various different scenes that fall on the fringe of what the average listener tolerates. AND yeah, i would love to see the "marketing" for projects like nyarlthotep or man is the bastard/bastardnoise or a label like youthattack! records. i think you are talking about something different than what we are. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19406#Comment_19406 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19406#Comment_19406 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:44:28 -0800 Curiosity It's intended towards fashion, but I think Laver's Law also applies in the case of music. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19413#Comment_19413 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19413#Comment_19413 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:50:52 -0800 joe.distort WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19465#Comment_19465 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19465#Comment_19465 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:01:05 -0800 Phro
bjork singing with led zepplin guitars while Talib Kweli and Mos Def rap over slipknot beats. not that any of those bands are extreme and probably shouldn't be mentioned in this thread, except to illustrate the "i listen to everything, but country" attitude that has, unfortunately, come to dominate the sonic landscape.

so what will extreme music sound like in five years? Probably nothing recognizable, while being infinitely familiar.

I do look forward to seeing someone growling about disemboweling fairies over a funk bass line with classical strings and an electro-distortion drum line. It may not be pleasant, but it should be interesting. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19466#Comment_19466 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19466#Comment_19466 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:02:10 -0800 Phro WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19532#Comment_19532 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19532#Comment_19532 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:56:22 -0800 Nil
I have some vague thoughts about theme here as well - again almost purely within the metal scene. For example, the mainstream metal press seems to have taken a recent interest in viking, pagan, battle and folk metal. In this case, the bands tend to take the majority of their musical influence from black or death metal (and arguably somewhat from power metal) and their thematic influences from popular mythology (particularly Viking / Norse mythology) and material more traditionally covered by folk music - retelling the stories of mythological heroes, great battles and historical events (in the case of pagan metal, there tends to be a particular running theme of the eradication of old pagan beliefs and values by Christianity). In some cases, the bands will also take some musical influence from folk (Ensiferum, for example, use a kantele as well as various "folky" musical themes - notably in the intro to "Lai Lai Hei" on the album Iron).

I guess my point with the above ramblings would be that while musically, the average listener would not be able to tell the bands apart from the average black / death metal fare (I know my mum, for example, couldn't tell you the difference between say Amon Amarth and Heartwork-era Carcass), in terms of the visual themes and lyrical ideas presented, they are worlds apart. So the future of extreme music may have as much to do with the evolution of these themes and ideas as with any purely musical evolution.

Apologies for the typically rambling style. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19537#Comment_19537 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19537#Comment_19537 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:59:06 -0800 chris g WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19551#Comment_19551 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19551#Comment_19551 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:06:17 -0800 Nil sounded like the future the first time through. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19719#Comment_19719 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19719#Comment_19719 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:38:37 -0800 tulpa
Arktinen Hysteria. It's odd that everything on it is considered a precursor to more modern music, but it still sounds like the future to me. (Except that one song that sounds like vomiting. That's not the future.) ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19836#Comment_19836 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19836#Comment_19836 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:11:59 -0800 Kernowdrunk
Of course , there already exists a sound that stimulates hatred and bleak joylessness in our brains...the music of Jack Johnson. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19846#Comment_19846 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=19846#Comment_19846 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:26:39 -0800 Alastair

as for extreme? i think getting louder and noisier helps but also makes the extreme less so. i mean surely mezrbow, wolves eyes and metal machine music have taken that definition of extreme to its limits?

i do look forward to the new Boris album though ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20130#Comment_20130 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20130#Comment_20130 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:49:10 -0800 paulmcenery
And worrying about what the next most extreme thing will be is either being a sad sad fanboy wanting bigger and bigger kicks because the last extreme thing is wearing off; or it's being an artist who likes that kind of noise and trying to sell it to sad sad fanboys.

God I hate marketing.

It does come back around to Stockhausen, in my book, and his way of talking about music as having, what was it, five dimesions? Pitch, duration, timbre, dopey and doc. Whether the volume or pitch or timbre are unpleasant is to me a whole lot less interesting than how the sound is organized and how it impacts society.

And in both those senses, "extreme" music has vanished all the way up its own arse, for the most part.

Extreme meant something when Swans, Whitehouse and TG etc. were doing it, because it was part of a social discourse. Now it's just one more consumer capitalist leisure option -- ooh, look at me, I'm exotic, I've got a Boris album!

At which point, yeah, I'm more about how Keith Rowe is working globally with musicians on intercontinental improvisation through the net, on improvising patches, on getting the skronkiest noises he can get out of his guitar and amplifier while still managing to make something organized enough to be aurally provocative.

Or, you know, we could talk more about the press releases of the likes of Sunn O))), saying they're working in the realm of the sublime. I dare say they are. Does it work? Maybe. Does spinning in a circle till you fall over make you see the face of God? Probably. So what?

Have you advanced the discourse? Have you really kicked society in the nads? Have you made a thing of beauty? Those are the preliminary questions worth asking. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20133#Comment_20133 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20133#Comment_20133 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:57:29 -0800 joe.distort WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20137#Comment_20137 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20137#Comment_20137 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:11:52 -0800 paulmcenery
OTOH, I got so sick of everything eight years ago that I stopped listening to anything but anthropological recordings of Micronesian Islanders, with a slice of glitch on the side.

Then even that got boring, so I went back to drunken country-western singalongs.

Doesn't really matter. Outside of technological innovation, we're done with progress. We're not modernists any more, we're Nowists. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20162#Comment_20162 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20162#Comment_20162 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:49:44 -0800 Curiosity We're not modernists any more, we're Nowists.
Damn straight. Like Karim Rashid said, "The past is over, we can't predict the future, design for the present." ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20229#Comment_20229 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20229#Comment_20229 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 05:05:48 -0800 radian
What new extremes are left to explore though? We've had microtonal, atonal, fast, loud, quiet with "lowercase" music and so on, since 2001 we've got slow covered with "Organ²/ASLSP" which will take until September 2640 to be performed completely. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20344#Comment_20344 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20344#Comment_20344 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:59:03 -0800 nickmaynard
i look forward to genres blending together, more than new genres being created.

that being said, i think a band like saxon shore is pushing in the right direction.
http://www.myspace.com/saxonshore ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20371#Comment_20371 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20371#Comment_20371 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:13:41 -0800 goodwillsidis
Katey Red will be the KRS-One of the next generation. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20388#Comment_20388 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20388#Comment_20388 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:06:38 -0800 warrenellis WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20707#Comment_20707 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20707#Comment_20707 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:34:22 -0800 screaming meat "And worrying about what the next most extreme thing will be is either being a sad sad fanboy wanting bigger and bigger kicks because the last extreme thing is wearing off; or it's being an artist who likes that kind of noise and trying to sell it to sad sad fanboys."

Bit harsh. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20713#Comment_20713 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=20713#Comment_20713 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:00:02 -0800 joe.distort WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=21258#Comment_21258 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=21258#Comment_21258 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:38:22 -0800 Jason_Thibault
The last time truly interesting things were happening with organic extreme music would be when all of the various scenes were mixing it up in New York city back in the nineties. John Zorn was a huge catalyst for this. Members of Napalm Death, Naked City, the Melvins, Patton, Brutal Truth, Zeni Geva etc... would continually jam together and make new sounds. Did it set the world on fire? Probably not, but I do remember literally dozens of musicians from the UK grindcore, NY avant garde and Japanese Noise Rock scenes getting together in studios and putting out hundreds of CDs and LPs during the 1990's. They had a huge community. Zorn, Bill Laswell, Justin Broaderick, Kevin Sharpe & Buzz all intermingled.

I never thought it was about trying to make the most extreme or shocking sounds, just something new. A lot of it worked and a lot of it didn't. But they were endlessly jamming and experimenting.
Despite certain Naked City tracks being optioned for Sega Genesis TV commercials, there was nothing "mainstream" about it. You'd still clear a room blasting Torture Garden. It's all about context.

For future "extreme" sounds I think there'll have to be that level of experimentation again between different but not opposing genres. There's an excellent article online somewhere written by Lester Bangs (28 years ago) where he was observing the similarities between punk rock and free form jazz in the late 70's and how musicians from both scenes were starting to mix it up. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=22833#Comment_22833 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=22833#Comment_22833 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:30:46 -0800 nigredo
anyway, it's all a matter of context. play a kayo dot or extended melvins or early harvey milk track to a metalhead and see how they react. my mom will probably freak out at slayer, but then a lot of people my age will freak out at maria callas or demmis roussos...

people eventually get used to anything in the end. you can see a lot of former hardcore and metal bands (mentioned above by a lot of you) borrowing elements from jazz and avant-garde music in order to appear jarring effects through juxtaposition and collage, even though it's been done to death, from mahler and stravinsky, to zappa and zorn, to aphex twin and king crimson etc...

do we really care what the future of extreme music will be? can't we think in terms of individuals rather than sweeping categories, that a lot of artists disagree with? one can see how what was termed "classical" or "modern classical" (including "minimalism" or the work of webern, stockhausen, xenakis and others) has somehow evolved in the work of aphex twin, johann johannson, squarepusher, colleen etc the same happens in the broader field of extreme music. there are bands that appear to progress in interesting directions. we don't have to resort to labels like thrash, hardcore or noise anymore. you can't describe meshuggah or maninkari, vibracathedral orchestra or om without employing a number of labels or reference points. if anything is to change it's going to change through units not groups. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=22953#Comment_22953 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=22953#Comment_22953 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:46:28 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=22966#Comment_22966 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=22966#Comment_22966 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:10:45 -0800 Vespers WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23073#Comment_23073 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23073#Comment_23073 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:17:08 -0800 liquidcow WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23081#Comment_23081 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23081#Comment_23081 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:28:17 -0800 OpenSourceCode WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23155#Comment_23155 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23155#Comment_23155 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:21:05 -0800 joe.distort
also, i kinda forgot about this thread. its nice to read everybody (well, everbody that ACTUALLY had something to say) having differing opinions and not just getting into a bitch fight.

as i mentioned in another thread, the new (and final) DYSTOPIA LP came out this week, and it kind of exemplifies some of the sentiments in this thread. when their last output was released, it was still fringe-y. while this new album is brutal and stompingly good, it feels a lot less removed from a lot of "modern" metal/hardcore. while it is interesting to see where the doomcrust genre has come, and where its influences have taken root, it also weirds me out to hear things that are musically related to dystopia getting popular singing about bullshit, while the crusty, almost homeless oakland gangsta core mutherfuckers are still putting out a serious record about modern life crushing our spirits and bodies. i didnt have a point really, i just figured that rant would fit in well here moreson than other threads.

oh, and i dont think you meant it condescendingly, but does it actually matter how long a performance is? i have seen power violence and grind bands play for ten minutes, and it is just as, if not more, intense than some 3 hour (let alone 3 day) stretched out endurance-fest ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23162#Comment_23162 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23162#Comment_23162 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:33:48 -0800 offtandiscord
I've been to a few psy-trance squat parties, and don't get me wrong, it's pretty extreme to take lots of drugs and party for 2 to 3 days, but it's not exactly comparable. dj's wouldn't exert the same amount of energy as say a drummer or guitarist over the same period of time.

innit. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23184#Comment_23184 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23184#Comment_23184 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:18:01 -0800 OpenSourceCode http://www.myspace.com/derangomusic
http://www.myspace.com/megalopsy
http://www.myspace.com/zikmuzik

Should get you started nicely.

@oftandiscord:
um, so what if someone exerts a lot of energy on stage? Does it somehow make the music coming out of the speakers that much more intense, that someone is sweating? ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23191#Comment_23191 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23191#Comment_23191 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:36:06 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23238#Comment_23238 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23238#Comment_23238 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:31:09 -0800 screaming meat my mom will probably freak out at slayer

Well - I freak out listening to Girl's Aloud... Y'know...

... I let my hair down, grab a hair brush and shake my tooshie all night lo-- uh... I mean bash my head open. Yeah.

However, if you want extreme in terms of "set" length then Wagner's Ring Cycle is probably where it's at.

If we gloss over the fact that he was a pusedo-nazi screwball, of course.

Having problems with it? Then try this aptly titled little beauty.

Can you believe that? ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23406#Comment_23406 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23406#Comment_23406 Sat, 16 Feb 2008 05:17:29 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23553#Comment_23553 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23553#Comment_23553 Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:10:02 -0800 liquidcow WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23558#Comment_23558 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23558#Comment_23558 Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:39:35 -0800 alwayscrashing
If he had anti-semitic opinions they were just 'of the time' and I don't think we should bother being squeamish about it and try to judge him by the standards of 2008. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23568#Comment_23568 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=23568#Comment_23568 Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:58:14 -0800 screaming meat Was Wagner actually a Nazi? I thought the deal with him was more that his music was appropriated by the Nazis

I think that was more the ideas of the philosopher Nietzsche who was an old friend (and eventual enemy) of Wagner. His own sister, Elizabeth, gave away his works to the later Nazi regime after his death in 1900. The reason they stopped being friends was because Wagner was extremely antisemetic (plus he was all into weird folk-lore-type stuff). Wagner was a Proto-Nazi, his ideas were instrumental in forming the idea/concept/manifesto/whatever of the Nazi party.

If he had anti-semitic opinions they were just 'of the time' and I don't think we should bother being squeamish about it and try to judge him by the standards of 2008.


I'm only stating what I learnt about Wagner at university from a couple of lectures (I'm certainly no authority). However, there has been antisemitism (and racism for that matter) for... well, for forever and it is clearly still very much about. Sure the media frowns upon it and anyone with half a brain does too but I'm always suprised by what comes out of some folks mouth.

So... since racism is still all around us now does that make it okay since it's 'of the time'?

I know you can't judge the past by today's standard. Just food for thought. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=24688#Comment_24688 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=24688#Comment_24688 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:07:24 -0800 Phro
so, while i think it would be a damn shame to throw wagner out for being antisemitic, i think it would behoove us to be free and open about it. Just like we need to admit that the gangsta rap market thrives on homophobia and misogyny, while still being able to appreciate whatever artistic achievement it harbors.

So, what i'm saying is that, while no, racism is not okay, we need to be prepared to just a work on its artistic value, whether or not we agree with it's message. That does not mean, however, that we need to accept it's message... I not proposing mindlessness (some call it open-mindedness) but rather critical thought. Eminem is actually a fairly talented rapper (in my opinion, of course, certainly not as good as any number of other rappers, but he does have talent), but he simply has nothing worth saying to say.

(okay, maybe that was a bad example...) ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25205#Comment_25205 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25205#Comment_25205 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:57:09 -0800 screaming meat If we gloss over the fact that he was a pusedo-nazi screwball, of course.

Agreed! ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25522#Comment_25522 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25522#Comment_25522 Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:30:07 -0800 Kernowdrunk the Nazis loved that huge chunks of his work definitely feel tainted.

However , Tristan and Isolde , the Cornish/Irish love story , is one of the most intense and moving pieces of music and events I've seen...five hours of foreplay
and tension finally resolved in a deathgasm of utter beauty....I'm just off to wash my hands . ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25563#Comment_25563 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25563#Comment_25563 Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:39:31 -0800 joe.distort WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25914#Comment_25914 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25914#Comment_25914 Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:52:35 -0800 paulmcenery
And damn if you can't see where the likes of KK Null and Boris get their ideas from. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25971#Comment_25971 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25971#Comment_25971 Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:31:31 -0800 Theremina Scott Walker's "The Drift" is probably one of the most terrifying things I've heard in years. (Doesn't get much more extreme than meat-punching.) ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25976#Comment_25976 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=25976#Comment_25976 Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:40:51 -0800 Theremina Idiot Flesh is getting back together. Listen to "Let the Dog Sing."

The new shit's going to be insane. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=26005#Comment_26005 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=26005#Comment_26005 Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:53 -0800 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=26021#Comment_26021 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=26021#Comment_26021 Wed, 27 Feb 2008 05:31:19 -0800 nigredo
completely agree. it is scary as hell...

even though i really like SGM, i never got into idiot flesh... ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=26071#Comment_26071 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=26071#Comment_26071 Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:36:20 -0800 tulpa WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30230#Comment_30230 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30230#Comment_30230 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:32:12 -0700 omer333
So yeah, I think whomever or whatever is out there has to get that Slayer Seal of Approval. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30267#Comment_30267 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30267#Comment_30267 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:27:45 -0700 offtandiscord WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30376#Comment_30376 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30376#Comment_30376 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:17:15 -0700 liquidcow
Slayer might not have sold out, but in a way I think their not changing at all is almost as bad, since they're now basically resting on their laurels. I saw them live and it was boring as hell, like they didn't have to make an effort on stage because just the fact that they're Slayer is enough, same with their music, they can churn out anything and people will buy it because it's Slayer. ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30377#Comment_30377 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30377#Comment_30377 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:43:37 -0700 offtandiscord
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dVI5_8yIdQM ]]> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30436#Comment_30436 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30436#Comment_30436 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:38:25 -0700 GreggN WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF EXTREME MUSIC? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30522#Comment_30522 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=775&Focus=30522#Comment_30522 Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:43:01 -0700 warrenellis
-- W ]]>