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    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2008
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Yeah, neo-folk has an altogether bizarre image that's pretty hard to come to grips with. It's not just the Nazi thing either, it's all that weird gnostic or magick imagery too. Maybe a folk revival? Or whatever the likes of Angels of Light or John Fahey count as?

    With post-rock: That seems on the money. I somehow suspect something more akin to Jesu will grow bigger before Pelican does, but then again, Isis has been fairly promoted by Tool, so who knows?
  1.  (775.22)
    @olivertwisted, trencher are playing an AWESOME all dayer in london on the 17th, with taint, art of burning water, bossk, latitudes and about 4 others i can't remember right now. trencher have developed leaps and bounds in the past 5 years so try and see them again if you can!
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2008 edited
    i cannot fucking wait for that new genghis tron lp. i listen to DEAD MOUNTAIN MOUTH so much its ridiculous. i get to see them again in april with converge, who also felt like the future cIrca JANE DOE, but everything since then has felt like they arent trying as much...
    • CommentAuthorNil
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2008
    It's hard to imagine exactly where we can go in terms of sheer extremity. As already mentioned, bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan and The Locust are already pushing the boundaries in terms of extreme technical playing (to the extent where both their recent albums have almost taken it down a notch, in order to explore some different sounds). The grind scene is always at the limits one way or the other - how fast / distorted / gory they can sound. I can't quite see noise getting any more noisy, if that makes sense, and again the likes of Merzbow have toned it down to some degree in recent years. Sunn 0))) seem to have pretty much pushed the doom / stoner thing as far as it can go in terms of how slow they can play without becoming utterly meaningless.

    As mentioned, I think some of the new and exciting stuff is going to come from crossover between the various extreme genres. There's already been some noise / extreme metal crossover (Merzbow have collaborated with Boris, Sunn 0))) and Gore Beyond Necropsy), there's a lot of potential in extreme electronica / metal crossover (Tourette Syndrom's Gabbergrind and the recent breakcore / metal stuff - Bong-Ra's Grindkrusher, Drumcorps' Grist and that Ted Maul album everyone seems to be talking about). Beyond that, I'm not really sure - Alec Empire vs. Merzbow Live CBGB's NYC 1998 showed exciting possibilities for further breakcore / digital hardcore /noise crossover, but I've not heard anything beyond that.

    One thing I've noticed recently, which may be slightly off-topic, is the gradual bleed-through of chiptune stuff into the mainstream - I've heard several tracks in clubs with definite chiptune elements to them (I'm pretty sure one was by Kanye West). Come to think of it, there have been some links between the chip scene and various extreme scenes before - the Nintendocore of HORSE the Band, Alec Empire's Nintendo Teenage Robots, DJ Scotch Egg's chiptune / gabber / breakcore and some of the stuff on the 20kbps records netlabel (overthrustr's METH DATE DANCE PARTY in particular).

    In short - I don't know, but it's going to be exciting.
  2.  (775.25)
    a lot of interesting stuff here, i do believe that the melding of INFLUENCES will be more instrumental that just the melding of genres ie: kids who grew up listening to 250 BPM deathcore techno as well as straight up grind/violence will produce some amazing shit.

    i have to disagree that the grind scene itself will just attempt to out-gore each other though, as that evolutionary dead end seems to have reached its peak (same goes for porno grind, quite possibly the most embarrasing relative of punk/hardcore imaginable). i do think the hipster/art school grind/chaosviolence scene of the past 5 years or so has yet to truly produce something that i think it is capable of spawning, even thought there has been a bunch of great, challenging music coming out of it.

    i am very interested in this touretts syndrom you talk about-sounds right up my alley. i checked out drumcorps on someones suggestion on here and was very pleased.

    and i totally agree with williac, AN ALBATROSS was so perfect for a period of time, tyhat i am almost scared to listen to their new album. crazy fun live, too.
  3.  (775.26)
    Hi Joe,
    Cool topic thread.

    I think you're right about various influences converging. I think the extreme music scene has branched out into so many sub-genres, that it now resembles the techno scene of the early 1990's. L.A.'s Murderfest at the Knitting Factory in April is a pretty good barometer of what's happening today in extreme music. 3 days of craziness. Wish I could go.

    I saw Polish Death Metallers, Behemoth in a smaller club here in Vancouver 2 years ago and I don't think a human could possibly drum faster than that. I've seen Napalm Death a half-dozen times and that was always like being trapped in a chamber of heaviness. Today is the Day & The Locust were pretty mental as well.

    Discordance Axis were one of the more extreme acts on the high treble end of the grindcore scene. And as olivertwisted mentioned above, the noise scene has been around for decades. Whitehouse has been pissing people and governments off since the 1980's.

    Sunno))) and Halo (2-piece from Melbourne, Australia) probably hold the crowns for sheer heaviness.
    DEP, Cephalic Carnage and Genghis Tron have taken tech-extreme fuckery to it's outer limits.

    So where do we go from here? I know I was excited as hell when Dave Witte (drummer of Burnt By The Sun) was going to play live drums for Agoraphobic Nosebleed. But it fell through.
    Whatever the next level is, it'll probably end up on Relapse Records, Hydra Head Industries or one of their brethren labels. It won't be hard to find. The internet speeds things up a million times.
  4.  (775.27)
    Dave witte is not only an unbelievable drummer (and DA is just great), but a rad guy as well, he has stayed with my friends a few times. i have actually seen the majority of the bands you listed, so i know you know your shit. i am really curious as to where things are going to be in the near future as new sounds, not just a progreesion form where things are now. i hope that makes sense. the more i think about it, it seems the speeds will drp as the intricacies and layers of sound expand.

    oh and about murderfest: i was unbelieavably pissed i couldnt get out for DESPISE YOU's first live show ever!! it is a small consolation prize that their 5th show ever will be here in phoenix....
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2008
    Extreme stuff will go wherever the genii take it. It will eat itself and produce something else original.

    Godflesh -> Jesu
    Death -> Opeth
    Napalm Death -> Converge \ Devil Driver (I'll get stick for this one)

    Wherever it goes I don't think it will be determined by how loud \ heavy it gets. It seems to be more about how layered and (sub)genre-bending it is for now.

    And I'd add in another date into joe.distort's original post. 1994 - City by Strapping Young Lad. when extreme music met Phil Spector's wall of sound.
  5.  (775.29)
    strapping young lad are THE shit. so good.
  6.  (775.30)

    To those talking about "neofolk", I'de love it if you would take a min to check out this fella: *or*

    As far as I'm concerned he helped pioneer what is becoming a huge genre idea (neofolk). I think you would like it.

    Also...I think music is going to start experimenting with what I call "negative space"; Burial is a great example of what I'm talking about here. Sometimes it's almost what you don't hear in a track that makes it so fucking amazing.
  7.  (775.31)
    This has been an interesting thread so far. I foresee the internet and continued maturation of the laptop/home studio musician to push things forward in more tiny pockets. I'm really enjoying the synthesis of solo musican creating what is traditionally band music. You have stuff link G.Tron, Xrin Arms and to an extent Otto Von Schirach. And we're seeing stuff snake back around. I had a chat w/ Benn Flashbulb about how he was listening to the new Venetian Snares w/ DEP and they were freaking out. If anyone can figure out how to bring the rythmical intensity of VSnares into a live band I'd put my money on DEP.

    The underground is pretty ripe right now as well. I was talking to Anthony/Xrin Arms when he was living w/ a mate of mine and he's getting ready to mount his 2nd Nationwide tour. The first got him some bread money at the end of the day and pushed his art out there even more.

    Taking things out of the "extreme" box I think one of the most interesting developments in this last year has been Hip Hop embracing a 4/4 traditional house pulse as a production school. People are more willing to shake it to a sparse 4/4 slice of retro future and we've seen some interesting permutations in bass and drum patterns. The NYC Drop the Lime/Curses!, Passions and Math Head production trio are tossing out some really amazing stuff boiling down drum and bass, grime/dubstep, and detroit techno into this thick, ropey, heavy as hell dance floor napalm.

    Then over in Japan I'm really digging their neo rave scene centered around the Guhroovy record store in Shibuya. Producers w/ song writing chops and excellent production scenes are re-interpreting Hardcore/Gabba culture in a post-IDM, kid606, mash-up world and making tracks for their own subculture. Stuff in the orbit of Sharpnel Sounds, Maddest Chikdom, Accelaracore, and Rendarec labels have been blowing my mind consistently over the last two years.
  8.  (775.32)
    the whitechapel orchestra is the future ;)
  9.  (775.33)
    I saw neofolk mentioned -- for those wanting a listen (and it's not folk/antifolk/electrofolk in the DoF style), there's tons of it for download at Be warned, there is a lot of Nazi shit associated with the neofolk/martial fields.
  10.  (775.34)
    Reformed Nazis too... Tony Wakeford of Sol Invictus repents entirely of being a National Front member. Nice enough guy though considering the dodgy past. Proof if ever there was that people are capable of realising they are twats and sorting themselves out.

    A (mostly) annual music festival I am involved with often has a neo-folk act on the bill. Sol Invictus in 2006 and Sieben in 2007. Both I'd recommend to anyone very highly.

    Sol Invictus
  11.  (775.35)
    Necrophagist have mixed technical and death metal with superb production value very very well... a definite one to check out.
    • CommentAuthoromer333
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2008
    I agree that Relapse and Hydra Head will get ahold of some the new sounds that come out, Southern Lord will as well.

    Do we need to be thinking in a "metal" spectrum for extreme music though? Don't get me wrong, I love metal, but I've found myself looking for music that pushes boundaries in ways that metal or punk isn't.

    I would say that TV on The Radio is extreme in the sense that they are just going for it on every song and making some amazing sounds.
    • CommentAuthorNil
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2008
    I agree that metal is not the last word in extreme music, but extreme metal / punk is relatively more mainstream (in my experience) than anything else. For example, I can pick up a copy of Terrorizer in most UK newsagents, but for extreme music in other forms the best source I've found so far is Wire, which also covers lots of jazz, free rock and, frankly, quite a lot of pretentious wank. Since went down, I have no real idea of what's happening in the breakcore / speedcore scene.

    On the music side of things, I can't believe I forgot to mention The Berzerker - one of the prime examples of a band mixing extreme techno and brutal death metal, with ear-blowing results. Also, I recently read an interview with Whitehouse where they claimed that the noise scene has become very rulebound, with a lot of people having an idea of what ought to constitute "noise". Indeed, that's apparently how they got their latest album name - someone told them that what they were doing was no longer "noise" but just "a bloody racket", or words to that effect.

    I would also like to mention Keiji Haino (specifically as part of the free-rock ensemble Fushitsusha) as providing not so much a "where can things go from here" moment so much as a "what the fuck is that" moment for me. Definitely one of the things that got me into extreme music - I wasn't sure if I liked it, but the idea that someone could get up on stage and howl into the microphone with seemingly no care for what other people thought was exciting to me, and I wanted to hear more.

    Finally, Mike Patton's "Ipecac" label is worth watching to find out what's coming next. Their catalogue is frankly bizarre and tends to be a little patchy, but they've released some stunning records - The Locust's Safety Second, Body Last EP, The Melvins and Lustmord's Pigs of the Roman Empire and Dalek's Absence stand out for me in particular.

    Sorry, I may be veering off-topic here. I'll try to post some predictions in a bit when my brain is slightly more active.
  12.  (775.38)
    I am tempted to close this thread simply because half-bright pop band TV on The Radio has been cited as "extreme" music.
  13.  (775.39)
    extremely mediocre ?
    i remember the band extreme. they weren't.
    same applied to the new radicals. neither new nor radical.
  14.  (775.40)
    oh my fucking god, i keep typing these long responses, then hitting "back to discussions" instead of posting....i need to go back to bed. the gist: TV on the radio may be good and giving it their all ( ive never heard them) but if there is nothing that is pushing the boundaries of what the average person finds listenable its not what we are talking about at all. also, the berzerker is great and i need to check out what he has been doing for the past few years since i drifted out of the speedcore scene.

    mike patton is an extemely open minded guy, in a scattershot of very disparate genres- he has released/worked with a straaaange mix of styles/acts. i may not always like what he is working with, but i sure as hell respect that he does whatever he wants.