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    • CommentAuthorjonah
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.41)
    I was curious and looked up how much a plane like that costs. I think it's between $30,000-$60,000. He could have fixed up a beater too. Sure, I would love to have that kind of money, but it's not nearly as extravagant as I first thought.

    This article says he used the plane for work purposes - so maybe it was a tax write off!

    The best part of the "manifesto" was when he talked about the old lady that advised him to eat cat food. He could have filled a book up with real stories Studs Terkel style and let people draw their own conclusions.

    @atavistian Or Tank Man. I find that to be a much more powerful and inspiring image than a pile of rubble.
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      CommentAuthorAlastair
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.42)
    i'm really confused, how the fuck can you be fined for figuring your tax out wrong? isn't that the job of the goverment? i may be being overly british here but how the fuck does your tax work?
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      CommentAuthorBexx B.S.
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.43)
    Idiot. Just fucking have someone do your goddamn fucking taxes. For the life of me I can not understand, how this asshat - and countless industry people, and sports figures still manage to fuck them selves with taxes. Really? Is it that hard? Look at Nick Cage. He owes at least a couple of million I think in back taxes. He claimed it was his tax guy.. but he still managed to go and buy big bling.

    I have no sympathy for these people. For 2 years straight, I haven't gotten money back from Ca. When I used to. These are the prices you pay.
  1.  (7759.44)
    This may be a case of the "broken clock being right twice a day," but the guy had valid points. I don't condone his choice of action, but the system is broken. It is. I haven't heard a valid argument claiming that our system works, and I've several arguments to support that we are, in fact, being fucked. So do we just shut up and take it? Or do we work on changing the tax system (which does, in fact, reward the rich at the expense of the working class), change the health care system (which is built on profitability over actual health care), and change the way we live? Not by blowing shit up, but by working as citizens to hold our elected officials accountable?
    I am incredibly disappointed in humanity as a whole when one person chooses to take an innocent life, but I cannot fault him for being frustrated with the system of government. That's all my tired head can manage right now.
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      CommentAuthorJeff Owens
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.45)
    @Alastair

    isn't that the job of the goverment?

    It goddamned well should be.
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      CommentAuthorAlastair
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.46)
    i really don't understand how the most powerful (and it seems to me) most populated goverment on earth can't just do it? surely if they can figure out how much people owe after they pay couldn't they just tell them before?! i'm actually flabbergahsted
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.47)
    > i'm really confused, how the fuck can you be fined for figuring your tax out wrong? isn't that the job of the goverment?

    In some countries, the civil servants who work for tax authorities are seen as helpful: and, tax payers trust them to be on your side and to help figure out what's fair, how much you ought to pay.

    Whereas in the States I think it's seen as an adversarial relationship, with the tax authorities trying to get as much as possible, and people privately hire their own advistors to try to minimize what they pay.

    > Surely if they can figure out how much people owe after they pay couldn't they just tell them before?!

    American tax laws are said to be "complicated", to put it charitably.

    Also, for someone who's a self-employed non-employee, they presumably need to wait to see how much revenue they're declaring, what expenses they claim, etc.
  2.  (7759.48)
    There's nothing more dangerous than an inconvenienced rich person.
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      CommentAuthorDextra
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.49)
    Stack's widow has said "she's sorry for everyone affected by the tragedy."

    Let's see. She and her daughter are homeless. Any pets they may have had are now dead. She probably lost precious keepsakes in the fire, too. And, because Texas is a community property state, she's now responsible for all his debt and legal problems, and she may not be eligible to collect on his life insurance.

    But, somehow, she's the one who has to make apologies.

    In recent days, Stack's wife had become afraid of his "increasingly frightening anger," the New York Times reports, citing the wife's stepfather. She reportedly took her daughter to stay in a hotel on Wednesday.

    So, possibly, he'd have blithely happily burned them alive if he could have. Why not? They're just chattel, after all. That's the typical mindset of these losers, same as the ones who kill their wives and children and then themselves. IMA TAKIN MAH POSSESSIONS WITH ME!

    Back to the first article: Stack's former wife, Ginger, tells the Los Angeles Times "He was a good man. Frustrated with the IRS, yes, but a good man."

    Stockholm Syndrome much? "Good men" don't fly planes into buildings. Per the second article, when she and Joe divorced in 1999, Ginger had to file for bankruptcy "because she could not pay $125,860 in back taxes due for 1993 and 1998."

    Apparently, because of hubby's political hobby. According to that second article, Stack first got involved with a "tax resistance movement" in the early '80s. He blamed the IRS and other agencies for "hindering his business prospects, and for wrecking his retirement plans."

    This is the world's tiniest violin. Taxes are the price you pay for living in a modern society.
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.50)
    The guvment is evil they make me pay taxes therefore I must kill people.

    Really if this guy's argument makes any sense to you then there's nothing left to say.
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      CommentAuthorJeff Owens
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.51)
    There's plenty left to say if people have an interest in sharing their opinions and listening to one another with open minds.
    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.52)
    @angeldye

    It is not the job of the government (unfortunately) as it is a persons responsibility to pay the taxes they owe correctly. Again, unfortunately, the tax codes are incredibly complex. However, that's why accountants exist. There people whose job it is to do that.
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010 edited
     (7759.53)
    Yeah but doesn't his reasoning strike you as insanity?

    Sure anyone can be dissatisfied with how things are going. But this guy takes this dissatisfation, tries to murder his family, and then makes himself into a bomb which slams into a building where 200 or more people are going through their day. His note might make sense, but only if you disregard his actions...
    •  
      CommentAuthorJeff Owens
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.54)
    He tried to murder his family? Correct me if I'm wrong but, in my experience, when you live with someone, especially when that someone is a significant other, you know whether or not they are home. The statement above that he'd have "happily burned them alive if he could have" is pure assumption and speculation, and I don't agree with it, so I think it would be a bit of a mistake to treat it as fact.

    Whether or not he was crazy has nothing at all to do with whether or not his note makes sense. The mere fact that quite a few of us on here understand why he was so outraged should say something about the validity of his points, regardless of the moronic action he took in the end. Action which, to me, was more caused by him being fed up than it was any true desire to make a difference, despite his statement that violence is the only answer.

    I feel like lots of people are dismissing others' opinions here simply on the grounds that they don't agree. I have been quite frustrated with this thread because I feel I am seeing provers proving what thinkers think, instead of a willingness to listen to a different opinion and actually take it into consideration. My own feelings on the subject have actually fluctuated quite a bit while reading everyone's thoughts in this thread. I started out thinking the guy wasn't crazy, and now I'm seeing the crazy there. I don't think it's that black and white though. I don't think that doing one crazy thing that takes some lives equates to being disregarded. Lives are taken every day. Why aren't we calling soldiers crazy? Because they have a free pass to kill?
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.55)
    Yeah but the disconnect is between his feelings of dissatisfaction and the subsequent actions. You can't draw a line between that and say, based on the note alone, he isn't crazy. The man's end point was his belief that setting his house on fire and becoming a suicide bomber was justified. That's where the craziness shows itself.

    We all feel dissatisfied like this guy did at times, absolutely, 100%. But the manner in which we deal with those situations is what makes us different from Joe Stack.
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      CommentAuthorJeff Owens
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010 edited
     (7759.56)
    You can't draw a line between that and say, based on the note alone, he isn't crazy.


    No, you can't. And I didn't.

    I'm not arguing whether or not he was crazy at the end, I'm arguing the fact that being crazy does not exempt you from having valid points. In fact, valid points can drive one to insanity.
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      CommentAuthorstsparky
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.57)
    Jeff? It's like this. You're trying to tell me something akin to "Hitler was a vegetarian and was kind to dogs" when Stack clearly refused to sell his toys to settle his tiny debt to society. He killed 3 people that we know off. And now these folks have no where to go work. And now he screwed over his widow. Hopefully she'll file an "Abused Spouse" form and walk away.

    Taxes pay for schools and roads and good stuff. Stack could have simply gone to jail to protest - violence solves nothing. I want to see Obama personally link Stack to the Teabaggers' more extreme elements - and call them out as racist nutjobs.
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      CommentAuthorJeff Owens
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.58)
    Is it meaningless that the IRS are operating outside the law?

    The man was HARDLY Hitler.
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.59)
    He had some valid points, yes. "The world is not fair, people are mean" But that's about it. He has some paranoid bullshit points also: all politicians are evil and the justice system too.

    I have more sympathy for the 911 bombers than for this piece of shit.
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      CommentAuthorJeff Owens
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     (7759.60)
    all politicians are evil and the justice system too.


    Then I'm paranoid, too.