Whitechapel - White Holes

White Holes

2010-08-17T13:52:10-07:00

So, in my writings I thought about White Holes being able to survive/repel the crushing gravity of a black hole, so I looked it up on Wikipedia. To my surprise there are actual white holes (not that surprised, but surprised enough).

Now I am confused. As a black and white hole are the same thing, does this mean that the black hole is one side (one event horizon) and the white hole is the other side (another event horizon) of a cylinder that connects two separate universes?

Thanks for any info concerning this...

White Holes

2010-08-17T14:13:11-07:00

Wikipedia answers this best, "A white hole in general relativity, is a hypothetical region of spacetime which cannot be entered from the outside, but from which matter and light may escape. In this sense it is the reverse of a black hole, which can be entered from the outside, but from which nothing including light may escape."

White holes have never been observed, nor are they like black holes. They were a theory proposed to explain the idea that you lose mass/energy down a black hole; where does that mass/energy go?

Stephen Hawking suggested that black holes actually radiate the mass/energy back out as what is now called "Hawking Radiation." If Hawking Radiation is real, white holes are less likely to exist.

Bottom line: They're an idea, and not observed to be real. Much like deities.

White Holes

2010-08-17T14:17:51-07:00

I don't know. BUT, it gave me an interesting idea! Say it was now commonplace to travel through a black hole and exit a white hole into another universe, or another area of our universe, with no ill effects. Since light cannot escape a black hole, the event horizon would be littered with the light shadows (for lack of a better term) of previous travelers.

I just creeped myself out.

White Holes

2010-08-17T14:19:19-07:00

So what is it?

White Holes

2010-08-17T14:28:59-07:00

And there are ideas why we don't observe them even if they exist.

White Holes

2010-08-17T14:48:55-07:00

So if you had a universe that meshed with the particles that a white hole was emitting would that cause it to implode? Say a white universe (for lack of a better term or understanding)?

And...if Hawking radiation exists, does a Black Hole just partake in and then emit particles? Is it washing the particles? Cleaning them up? And for some reason I don't understand why a black hole would shrink it is attracting things with such a dense gravity? Is Hawkings radiation immune to the gravitational pull...and I thought that nothing is in fact anti-gravity.

White Holes

2010-08-19T15:54:02-07:00

So, I obviously don't know a lot about physics, but I am learning. So, if a black hole empties out into another universe (theoretically), and that universe has multiple white holes that instead of having a large mass of gravity are expunging matter instead, would that make sense???? I've kinda written it down already and it sounds okay to me...and it is complete fiction of course, but does that fuck with anything that is shouldn't??

White Holes

2010-08-19T16:20:24-07:00

Your ideas don't seem wildly off, but I think you're trying to run before you can walk here. White holes and Hawking radiation details are not easy concepts and I don't think anybody who's commented here has the expertise to give you all the information you need.

I'd suggest that you pick up copies of some of Stephen Hawking's books (especially BLACK HOLES AND TIME WARPS) and read them more than once; Dr. Hawking is a much better teacher of these things. There are probably some other great books, too, and maybe some other Whitechapeliers can help. I also recommend THE ELEGANT UNIVERSE, by Dr. Brian Greene, which has some nice opening chapters about spacetime physics. Apologies if you've read them already; I feel like they took me at least a few reads before I felt like I had a grasp of them.

I don't want to sound dismissive or patronizing, but physics is really hard and I think you're going to get a better introduction from such an expert, and their edited book, than you would from an amateur like me.

Anyway, as far as white holes expelling matter in other universes that has been put into black holes from our own: yeah, that would make sense if you are willing to say that mass cannot be destroyed inside a black hole, and has to go somewhere. Either by being expelled back into our universe elsewhere, re-released as Hawking radiation, or tossed into a new universe that exists at the center of the black hole...perhaps that would look like a white hole to the residents of that microcosmic universe.

White Holes

2010-08-19T19:17:56-07:00

John, thanks for the comments...I will make sure to pick up those books because I have a lot to learn, and have not a lot of prior experience with this. I am also not afraid to look like an idiot by asking some questions publicly as I have learned a lot from other people.

And @everyone else thanks for chipping in...does anyone have some interesting books on physics that they think i should pick up??

White Holes

2010-08-20T00:27:23-07:00

You might also want to check out something by Paul Davies...maybe "How To Build a Time Machine"...it's a pretty quick read.

White Holes

2010-08-20T03:52:03-07:00

@Old Moon Face
Genius!
Forgive the spam but I feel like Grant and Naylor have a good portion to say about this subject:
Taken from RED DWARF Season IV Episode 4, "White Hole"

8 Ext. Space.
We see the White Hole.  It resembles a white star, surrounded by a
shifting white cloud.

9 Int. Science room.
CAT is sitting on a bench, LISTER on a table.  RIMMER and KRYTEN stand
between them.

CAT: So, what is it?
KRYTEN: I've never seen one before -- no one has -- but I'm guessing it's
  a white hole.
RIMMER: A _white_ hole?
KRYTEN: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  A black hole
  sucks time and matter out of the universe:  a white hole returns it.
LISTER: So, that thing's spewing time back into the universe?  (He dons
  his fur-lined hat.)
KRYTEN: Precisely.  That's why we're experiencing these curious time
  phenomena on board.
CAT: So, what is it?
KRYTEN: I've never seen one before -- no one has -- but I'm guessing it's
  a white hole.
RIMMER: A _white_ hole?
KRYTEN: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  A black hole
  sucks time and matter out of the universe:  a white hole returns it.
LISTER: (Minus the hat.) So, that thing's spewing time back into the
  universe?  (He dons his fur-lined hat, again.)
KRYTEN: Precisely.  That's why we're experiencing these curious time
  phenomena on board.
LISTER: What time phenomena?
KRYTEN: Like just then, when time repeated itself.
CAT: So, what is it?

They all stare at him.

CAT: Only joking.

White Holes

2010-08-20T07:36:05-07:00

@mjmartinejohn
Your best bet here is neither to just ask us nor to just read a book (if you ask us we'll give you inexpert advice, if you read a book you may still be left with misconceptions that can't be corrected by text that doesn't address you and your ideas personally).
If you're hoping to make some sort of fiction out of this, I'd suggest first doing what John Skylar suggested so you can get the fundamentals straight, but then approaching a scientist who knows their stuff personally, so you can have a dialogue about your project specifically. This sounds daunting but thankfully there's an organisation specifically designed to team up scientists and creative writers for the purposes of technical advice The Science & Entertainment Exchange.
Hope that helps!

White Holes

2010-08-20T09:40:44-07:00

Wow, that's a great resource, Paul! Thanks for pointing it out.

White Holes

2010-08-20T10:05:10-07:00

Yeah, seriously, thanks Paul!

And it's good to see you back up around on your uh...keys. And feet, too, I assume.

White Holes

2010-08-21T05:59:12-07:00

Paul, that's great. I'll check that out.