Not signed in (Sign In)
  1.  (8855.81)
    I'm actually very fond of "The package" as a description of the FreakAngel's gift. Something that's been shaken up and poked at, but not completely opened.

    @lazarus corporation The Reverse Highlander sounds a bit too violent for My tastes, unless it's a solo position. There can only be one.
    • CommentAuthorthud
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2010
    When I think of British, I think of Punch, Winston defying the Nazis, and all of those wonderfully eccentric people who are probably more rational than anybody else.
    British is good.
    Where else could Monty Python have possibly come from?
    Certainly not the USA, where truth is usually for sale to the highest bidder.
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2010
    It's hard for me to look at the bottom of page 4, because it's Jack's POV, and the daggers in Arkady's eyes are aimed at ME.
    I do not want to make that woman mad. I wouldn't want to find out how far she could throw me.

    'Sides, truth be told, I have a bit of a crush on her. It's the waif vibe, I guess.
    Although I sense a sea change inside that smooth head, behind that beautifully expressive face. What's been described as "spacy" behavior, I think was merely a child-like state. But now the chrysalis has opened, and we're witnessing the emergence of a fully-grown creature.

    Two certainties: she won't be the last, and the result will be beautiful beyond words.

    Good job you brought Paul, eh, Warren?.
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2010
    Package also has that element of double entendre when talking about the male characters that we British often enjoy. :)

    I think we were all aware that Connor has something of a death-wish, @bobsyuncle; you don't need to be suicidal to see that. It's rather difficult to assume our collective mental health from our not continuously discussing it either. We know from Alice's testimony and the condition of the refugees that come in how hard it is Out There. But yes, it is interesting to see what effect the knowledge has on him.
  2.  (8855.85)

    I'm with you on this, to some degree.

    If it's rape and you reverse it is it still rape? Yes.

    If it's murder and you reverse it is it still murder? Yes.

    If it's suicide and you reverse it is it still suicide? Yes.

    Arkady had people talk to her when she went underwater. Luke identified these people as the future Freakangels themselves, in fact, KK's future personality didn't sound like it had even changed very much. Connor put it all together and calculated the odds of surviving the shot, when three out of three others had survived similar events. Three out of three is pretty high statistically. Luke proposed a theory, Connor tested it, it's now proven. They cannot die.

    However, and this is a big however, Connor is no longer the same person he was. The theory was not proven but would have been proven eventually. If they were going to go after Mark's drones, Connor probably would have been shot at some point anyway. That's what I was hoping would happen because it would have given us Connor 2.0 but kept Connor 1.0 true to character. Now the same guy who stood still as his throat was being cut takes himself out with his own gun? It's just a horrible, horrible twist.

    It would bother me more, except that I keep laughing. Isn't that terrible? We're talking about suicide and I'm doubled over when I read some of the dialogue, the fact that he's always been dressed like an emo doesn't help keep the laughs back. I just have to bow to the fact that this is masterful writing, capable of making me experience great mood swings and think at the same time.

    As for the comment about him being a coward for grabbing a bigger gun... well that's relative isn't it? Connor doesn't have any moral delusions; he said as much to Arkady. In Connor's mind, they're all evil anyway, they'd have to be to do the Big Push. Connor's frustration wasn't just that they aren't morally good, it was more that they were incompetent crap, and he couldn't stand being part of a group so stupid it can't figure the easy shit out.

    It's a black comedy, dude. Credit Warren for keeping this a secret this long, but the secret's out now. And I'm lovin' it.
  3.  (8855.86)
    What I love is, we were all expecting The Midwich Cuckoos meets reality TV after the world ends, and Warren decided to cleverly slip in Sartre's No Exit. Hell is other people, and no one can make eternity more unbearable than people who understand you completely and who you can't get away from.
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2010
    I agree, I really like the term "the package". Spooky psychic gifts have been done a lot, if not on this scale, and there a lot of tired cliche terms that could've been used. "The package" is unique and ingenious.

    Props to Arkady for giving Jack what was coming to him.
    When Luke came back, I had a sudden vision in my head of the FA's having a suicide battle -- as the years go by, killing themselves over and over, faster and faster, always trying to one-up each other. I hope it doesn't get that bad, but they have to address that issue. I just never thought Connor would be the first to try! Love it.

    The brilliance of this episode really brought it home to me how grateful I am that FreakAngels is available online, for free, at ANY TIME I want to read it or show it to anyone else. I don't have to lend it to a friend and worry about never getting it back. I don't have to pre-order it (though when I have more money, I'd love to get the printed books). Thank you Mr Ellis, Paul, Ariana, and everyone who makes FreakAngels happen! It's easily the best comic on the internet right now!
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2010
    I second that comment @gurglemeow.

    Great there's so many interpretations!
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2010
    Hell is other people, and no one can make eternity more unbearable than people who understand you completely and who you can't get away from.

    On this web page, Sartre is quoted as saying,

    "Hell is other people" has always been misunderstood. People thought I meant that our relationships with others are always poisonous and hellish. But, it's something else entirely that I want to say. I want to say that if relations with others are twisted and spoiled, then the other (person) can only be hell. Why? Because others are, fundamentally, what's most important in ourselves, for our own self-knowledge. When we think of ourselves, when we try to know ourselves, we basically use the knowledge that others already have of us, we judge ourselves with the means which others have, have given us, to judge us. Whatever I say about myself, all the judgement of (by) others comes into it. What I feel about myself, ditto. [The French word "autrui" which he's using here, translated as "other person", also apparently means "my alter-ego".] Which means that, if my relation[ship]s are bad, I make myself totally dependent on others and, in effect, I'm in hell. And there are many people in the world who are in hell because they depend too much on the judgement of others. But that doesn't mean that we can't have other relationships with others, it only marks the capital importance of everyone else to each of us.

    The second thing I wanted to say [about _No Exit_] is that these people aren't like us. The three people you will hear in _No Exit_ are unlike us in this that we are all alive and they are dead. Of course, here, "dead" means something else. What I wanted to point out, is precisely that many people are encrusted in a series of habits, of customs, that they have on them judgement which they're suffering but don't even try to change. And those people are like dead, in the sense that they can't break the frame of their worries, of their preoccupations and their customs and that thus they remain victims of the judgements which one has made of them.

    From that, it's obvious that they're cowardly or wicked. For example, if they started to be cowardly, nothing comes to change the fact that they were cowardly. It's for that that they're dead, it's for that, it's a way of saying that it's a "living death" to be surrounded by the perpetual care of judgements and actions that one doesn't want to change.

    So that, in truth, as we're alive, I wanted to show, by the absurdity, the importance, to/within us, of liberty, in other words the importance of changing acts by other acts. Whichever circle of hell we live in, I think that we're free to break it. And if people don't break it, then it's freely that they stay there. So that they freely put themselves in hell.

    So you see that "relations with others", "encrustation" and "liberty", liberty as the other side hardly suggested, those are the three themes of the piece.

    I wanted one (us or you) to remember it when you will hear it said, "Hell is other people".
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2010
    And indeed, one of the more/most disturbing things I've seen in the comic so far was the judgement of/against Luke, around here in Volume 1. Not that Luke did a lot to change that judgement. But that's no loving relationship.
  4.  (8855.91)
    Fan: Even if there is an element of "freedom to choose" here, if anything, the explanation behind the phrase "hell is other people" only makes it more accurate in this case. As far as we know, those 12 are the only Freakangels anywhere. No one else could really get what it's like, no one else could truly relate. If any one of them tried to change, really change, the rest wouldn't know what to do. And apparently they're predestined to be stuck with each other. AND they have a history of pissing each other off and letting each other down.

    Hee. Wonder what happens when they finally get the urge to have kids? Because that's been their biggest problem so far: none of them have really made the effort to commit to invest in the world around them. None of them have passed the final hurdle between rootless adolescent and committed adult. They've all got their dodges.
  5.  (8855.92)
    Wonder what happens when they finally get the urge to have kids?

    Shh! Don't spill the beans on the FREAKCHERUBS sequel just yet...!
  6.  (8855.93)
    Shh! Don't spill the beans on the FREAKCHERUBS sequel just yet...!

    Ha! Like FREAKANGELS, but now with more tantrums, explosions, and poopy diapers!
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2010
    Brilliant end tag line. Feel silly happy.
  7.  (8855.95)
    @Fan: I never knew that. Now I get to tell a number of misanthropic people that their hero Sartre is much less misanthropic than they are. Glee.

    I think we've seen that the Angels are indeed going to change. Within thirty years they're going to grow up, become enlightened to the fact that they are stuck together forever and may as well learn to get along, put their differences aside and become a collective of creatures of pure energy capable of travelling back in time to make sure the future turns out right. Which I think is the most hopeful, humanistic and endearing thing I've read since The Invisibles. (That's a long time.)
    • CommentAuthorFan
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2010
    Now I get to tell a number of misanthropic people that their hero Sartre is much less misanthropic than they are. Glee.

    I wonder how that will affect your relationship with them, and their (and your) self-image. I've been thinking about having a relationship with an alcoholic, and saying all the time, like, "You shouldn't be drinking"; and since they'd drink *all* the time they'd hear nothing else from me, which isn't a very good/positive relationship.

    My mum (who's a preschool teacher) says that you should wait until a child does something good, and then praise them for it (e.g. not "you're misanthropic" but "it's so nice of you to come out with me this evening"). She says that's true of animals too. And criticism should be phrased as "specific, positive requests": positive meaning "do" rather than "don't", and specific, e.g. "hang up your coat in the hall" rather than "don't leave clothes around in the kitchen" (or, worse, "you're a total slob").

    But yeah, much less misanthropic. He couldn't be too misanthropic, I guess, or no-one would have put on his plays; he wrote it, for actor friends of his to perform in. Another thing, it's a play: so about fictional characters, it's not accusing you or me or anyone in particular. He even emphasises (above) "liberty", saying that anyone is free to change prejudices (or not). And it's not only "you are hell" or "I am hell" but about our relationship, how judgement affects self-image, and (quite unlike hell in fact) the fact that change is possible.

    There's something about the French, too. French school teachers, and French parents in general, are relatively particular about how their children behave, so children ae quite socialized. That's quite the generalization of course, but still.

    Whereas the FAs talk about their pasts, knowing each other in the past, have never mentioned any adult (except hostile) influences on their lives.
  8.  (8855.97)
    For FA to make children they must be in a relationship...and apart from Jack and Sirkka ther aren't other possible couples, as for now. And Jack isn't exactly aiming to tell Sirkka "I want to father your babies". He shot Luke to make Sirkka hate him so he could sail away! What about Connor and Arkady? They would make a great couple! Apart the bad FA Mark and Luke, there are Kirk and Karl,misanthropes to a fault, I doubt any of the two are capable of romantic attitudes.
    And let not me go on the peculiar sexual tastes of Kaitlyn...
  9.  (8855.98)
    @jack the rapper

    ...and what about Connor and Alice? Mixed couples shoudn't be forbidden? ;-)
  10.  (8855.99)
    Am I the only person who thinks Kirk and Alice make a better couple than Connor and Alice?
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2010
    No, Kirk and Alice all the way! Or... Jack and Alice! But I don't think Connor/Alice is a good match. Just 'cuz he helped her out doesn't mean they have to do it. ;) Connor helps everyone.