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			<title>Whitechapel - Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265798#Comment_265798</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:13:30 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ First: <a href="http://boards.4chan.org/co/res/20614483" >http://boards.4chan.org/co/res/20614483</a><br />(EDIT: Thread archived here: <a href="http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/4chan_thread_20614483.html" >http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/4chan_thread_20614483.html</a> )<br /><br />Then: <a href="http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/whole-book-for-free-or-learning-something-from-4chan/" >http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/whole-book-for-free-or-learning-something-from-4chan/</a><br /><br />Then: <a href="http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/pictures-help-us-learn/" >http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/pictures-help-us-learn/</a><br /><br />It been interesting to watch it happen. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265799#Comment_265799</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:19:16 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>warrenellis</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ That's pretty much Comics Economy 2010 in action, innit? ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265803#Comment_265803</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:30:19 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
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			<![CDATA[ Speaking as a 1998 kind of guy, it's a seriously, seriously valuable lesson. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265804#Comment_265804</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:31:48 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>lazarus corporation</author>
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			<![CDATA[ Wow.  The 2nd graph in your "Pictures Help Us Learn" post pretty much sums up all the debate and throws any doubts out of the window. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265815#Comment_265815</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:31:25 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>lordmitz</author>
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			<![CDATA[ ...hands down the best response from a creator to 4chan i've ever seen. really, really well handled, steve. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265818#Comment_265818</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:39:48 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Thanks! The reaction has been really strange and varied. From what I've seen, the consensus is that I'm either Maria Von Trapp, or the false, fixed smile on the face of gentrification.<br />(Edit-- duh. Cut myself off- here's the rest.) <br />Mainly it's just felt like a good comic book convention. I talk a little about what I do and answer some questions about the industry. A bunch of enthusiastic comics readers look over my stuff, some decide to buy it. All I need is a patdown by the TSA and a sore throat at the end and the whole thing will be just like Comicon. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265826#Comment_265826</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:23:37 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Sobreiro</author>
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			<![CDATA[ Add another sale to that list! Haha... What an interesting moment to witness. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265830#Comment_265830</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:49:23 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>kperkins</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ I already bought the trade, and the 1st 3 issues (I couldn't find the rest locally), based on a preview that I saw somewhere (here?), I'm glad the 4chan thing worked out for you.  The more eyes that see something, the more likely it is that sales will be made.  That's basically what Cory Doctorow has been saying for years.  What Warren (and Avatar) has been putting into action for 3 years now, and other people for various amounts of time.  It's, also, something that many in the industry have been railing against, sometimes with a lot of vitriol.  I hope that this might make them rethink their positions a little, and try new ways of getting their stuff out there. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265843#Comment_265843</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:33:39 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Jared Axelrod</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ I didn't even know this book existed before this was linked to on Twitter a few days ago--despite loving the work of both creators. After reading Lieber's clear, measured responses, I went out an bought a copy from Periscope's Etsy.<br /><br />I can't say that my personal experience is standard, but it certainly suggests that biggest threat against comic creators is not piracy, but being lost in the shuffle. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265845#Comment_265845</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:36:11 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Davies0010</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ I was watching the thread on 4chan as it developed, after enjoying the story-timing of Underground. And frankly, it blew my hippy noodle that you and Erika Moen actually took the time to get involved with the potentially fickle anonymous hordes of /co/, and how well things went over all. It was a pleasure to watch the banter develop, and bizarre to watch it all blow up into an actual <em >thing</em>, with consequences and all. <br /><br />Well, not as bizarre as 4chan <em >can</em> get, but still.<br /><br />Thankyou for this. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265847#Comment_265847</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:40:02 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Vornaskotti</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ I have to say that the situation in 4chan was handled the best possible way. That's how it goes - people are willing to pay for stuff they can get for free, as counter-intuitive as it is.<br /><br />BTW, linked the thread to our caving club's irc channel, I guess there will be a couple of purchases more in the near future. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265854#Comment_265854</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:17:51 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>icelandbob</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ just read a lot of the /co/ thread.<br /><br />I agree with Vornaskotti. You were patient, handled the trolls with deft skill, actually gave some proper info and people responded to it by buying your stuff. <br /><br />as the say in 4chan, full of WIN!!<br /><br />and i will need to look into getting a copy when i gets paid.... ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265861#Comment_265861</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:54:43 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>michaelk42</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ On top of everything else, I'm just amused at the spike difference between Boing Boing and 4Chan in that second "Pictures" graph.<br /><br />I see now who reaches the greater comics buying audience. XD ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265864#Comment_265864</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:02:22 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>icelandbob</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ so will we see warren gracing the forums of /co/ going "HEY KIDS! FUCKING COMICS!" then burning their house down...? ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265865#Comment_265865</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:05:27 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>oldhat</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ And right now I have something simple to point people who think that pirates should be crushed to.  An excellent example of working with the downloads and coming out on top.  Makes me think of <a href="http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28129" >Mark Waid's keynote at the Harvey Awards</a>.<br /><br /><br /><blockquote > It’s not because people “like stealing.” It’s because the greatest societal change in the last five years is that we are entering an era of sharing. Twitter and YouTube and Facebook–they’re all about sharing. Sharing links, sharing photographs, sending some video of some cat doing something stupid–that’s the era we’re entering. And whether or not you’re sharing things that technically aren’t yours to share, whether or not you’re angry because you see this as a “generation of entitlement,” that’s not the issue–the issue is, it’s happening, and the internet’s ability to reward sharing has reignited this concept that the public domain has cultural value.<br /><br />We are the smartest, most creative medium in America. We put out ideas on a periodical basis bam, bam, bam. We don’t put out a screenplay every three years. We don’t invent a TV show every ten years. There are more ideas in one Wednesday in one comic shop than in three years of Hollywood. We're notoriously bad businessmen, but we are unmatched for creativity and inventiveness, and there are ways to make filesharing work for us rather than cower in fear that it’s going to destroy us.</blockquote> ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265874#Comment_265874</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 17:03:24 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Twobyfour</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ if anything, the Freakangels experience has shown that this is a viable business model hands down.  As with the record industry though, the big loser will be the distributor, and to a smaller extent, retailers.. they need the hard copies more than the creator needs them. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265887#Comment_265887</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:10:58 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Twobyfour:<br />The damage to retailers is the part that scares me the most about our digital future. A sharp retailer is a <em >curator</em> and when he knows your tastes, he can give you the right book at the right time and change everything you know about comics. I still remember when Jeff Yandora (the owner of Phantom of the Attic, a shop near the University of Pittsburgh) put a copy of Love and Rockets in my hand and made my teenage brain explode. And then the next week when I came in, he asked me what I thought about the comic and I just spilled out everything I'd been thinking about for the past seven days. Obviously there'll still be all the various channels for learning about new stuff online, but there's something vital about that face-to-face relationship. I'd never want to see it disappear from comics and comics stores the way it has from record stores and music. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265890#Comment_265890</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:44:59 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Michaelk42:<br />"I see now who reaches the greater comics buying audience. XD"<br /><br />To be fair, Boing Boing didn't link to me, Jeff, or Undergroundthecomic.com. The only link was to Amazon which doesn't offer any preview art. I know we sold some copies through Amazon, because it went from in stock to on-order, and a few people took the time to following links deep in the Boing Boing comment thread to find our site. But it was just a nice bump. Pushing a comic to a non comics-centric audience is never easy, particularly without any interior art. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265895#Comment_265895</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 20:31:36 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>ales kot</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Steve Lieber:<br /><br />Love it! Smart, fast, cool. Inspiring. I'm talking about your actions, not the book. Still have to read it. Will buy soon. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265905#Comment_265905</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:59:04 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>David Matthew</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ One thing that you have a habit of forgetting when you're posting on a board like 4chan's /co/ is that you're in public. Sometimes it just feels like a couple of strangers sitting in a bar taking the piss, so when the creator of the book you're talking about plops down next to you, it's quite a shock. The thread's reaction is quite understandable. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265908#Comment_265908</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:38:16 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>stsparky</author>
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			<![CDATA[ I am going to buy the book from Amazon now. Even if Steve and Jeff weren't wonderful. And they are. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:25:22 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>SilentObjector</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Aaaand the thread's gone. Oh well. It was really interesting to read through, considering how I'm often one of the readers of those "storytimes," as the /co/ denizens call them. I even did one myself once, of issue 7 of Phonogram: The Singles Club (please don't kill me Mr. Gillen!), the day it came out. People show these comics to one another out of genuine love for the art form. There's even a recurring MST3K-esque thread that has shown, on occasion and in no particular order, The Unfunnies, Imagine: Stan Lee's Superman and Imagine: Stan Lee's The Flash. It leads to purchases, of course (I read the first issue of Return Of Bruce Wayne on /co/, and I've got #s 2-5 on my shelf right now), so I don't see anything wrong with it. But then, I'm not a comic writer/artist (yet), so I don't feel like the prime expert here. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265940#Comment_265940</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 04:43:55 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>agentarsenic</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ This is a prime example of a post scarcity economy in motion. Comics, like most other media, are no longer scarce. They can be run (and have been) through the internet copy machine an infinite number of times. Why did /co/ purchase Mr. Beiber-Leiber's work? Because he was a gentlemen, and had class enough to not be a giant dick about having his hard work displayed in public. I'm betting a major reason people bought Underground (besides the wonderful art + story) is because Steve is who he is - awesome. Steve got himself oodles and oodles of social currency with /co/ and it shows.<br /><br />Someone get Cory Doctorow on the phone! ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=265946#Comment_265946</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 05:24:07 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>sundayatwork</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ This is a prime example of how to get your work out there on the internet, by working a new distribution channel.  But, this is still just a creator selling their work.  It dosen't matter if you're pitching to a company or a message board.  This is nothing more than good old fashion legwork.<br /><br />We won't have a true post scarcity economy until you can make a living without selling your books. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:48:43 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>sneak046</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ An anecdote has just occurred to me that has some relevance here<br /><br />I have a friend who simply *refuses* to read Freakangels online for free and instead has trade-waited for each of the hardcovers (which are beautiful things to own, actually). Which must make a certain Mr Christensen a very <del >rich</del> happy man indeed...;-)<br /><br />I doubt he would have got started if it wasn't for my proselytising  on facebook & IRL at him (and the fact that he too worships at the altar of Ellis...), but the fact is that he's bought something he could've got for nothing. <br /><br />I believe that some people will always value a good high enough to pay for it, even if it is available for free online. Is it just to be able to hold the physical artefact in their hands?  Collectors instinct? Whatever the reason, there is a market there.<br /><br />Whether this market is big enough to sustain a title long term I don't know - but the continued existence of FA after 5 volumes does seem to suggest that it is (assuming of course that Avatar aren't treating FA as a loss leader...) ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266002#Comment_266002</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:17:49 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>megrar</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ "I believe that some people will always value a good high enough to pay for it, even if it is available for free online."<br /><br />i'm the same way. <a href="http://www.lightspeedpress.com/" >Finder</a> has moved online, but do i touch it? no. i wait patiently for the trade. i'm a fuckin bibliophile. i love the feel of the book in my hand. i love its smell. i love its look on the shelf. i cannot afford to spend nearly as much as i would like on physical copies, but i gladly lay down what little i have to support the stuff i can get for free.<br /><br />btw: this whole thing with 4chan has me utterly delighted. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:25:14 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Sobreiro</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ See also what happened with Nicholas Gurevitch's PERRY BIBLE FELLOWSHIP... Every single strip is on the website but still the books sold out. I'm also a fan of books, I love them as objects as well as for their content. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266013#Comment_266013</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:05:50 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Vornaskotti</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Okay, at least one person from our caving club ordered Underground. Me, I'm currently in the process of carting out my books, comics etc. and getting rid of most of the physical stuff I own, so I'm holding out until it will be available in Comixology, which I've understood will be the case? ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266026#Comment_266026</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:47:30 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>lazarus corporation</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @Steve Leiber - just to let you know, I summed up the events in a <a href="http://new-media.lazaruscorporation.co.uk/2010/10/piracy-trumps-obscurity-again/" >blog post</a> and also alerted TechDirt to the story as it's the kind of thing they're interested in (<a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101021/10481211524/comic-book-pirated-on-4chan-author-joins-discussion-watches-sales-soar.shtml" >which they've just run</a>). ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266030#Comment_266030</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:08:19 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Oddcult</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ I steal digital content all over the place. Fuck it, why deny it?<br /><br />I will buy anything decent in book form, or on DVD. I can't be arsed with CDs, as they're clunky and doen't really fit with the delivery method, but if I've got they money I'll definitely see the band. Last week I downloaded Lost Boys 3, thinking it would probably be a bit crappy and not worth shelling out for, but I was curious anyway. I actually loved it and am going to buy it when it comes out in the UK next week. <br /><br />I also went to the Library and got out Charlie Stross' The Jennifer Morgue. Sort of knowing his wife for years put me off reading his stuff, in case I didn't like it. But it was brilliant. Possibly up there with SnowCrash. So I've just been on Amazon and ordered the whole series of his 'Laundry' books.<br /><br />I have had Miracleman and Zenith in digital form for years. The second that decent printed versions of them are announced, I'm going to threaten my comics dealer with knee-capping if he doesn't pre-order them and ensure that he himself threatens his Diamond rep with a knee-capping if they're not delivered promptly.<br /><br />Same goes for a whole load of other stuff. Just to my right, I can see a bookshelf with about a grand's worth of hardback collections, from Lost Girls, though Hellboy to the Authority and Calvin and Hobbes. I could probably get those digitally, for free, at pretty much no risk whatsoever of Gene Simmons coming round and insisting on being my girlfriend. But I bought them and would again if I lost them.<br /><br />So, comics companies; think of the Interwebs as being like the radio and play me things and I will buy them. Give it *all* away and my buying habits will not change. Except that I'll probably buy more.<br /><br />And motor companies, yes, I so, so, so *would* download a car, if I could. Get on it, please. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266034#Comment_266034</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:58:07 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @Lazarus: Thanks! <br /><br />oh, and as others have noted, the original thread is 404'd, so I just posted an partial archive of the 4chan thread at my site: <a href="http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/4chan_thread_20614483.html" >http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/4chan_thread_20614483.html</a> <br /><br />@Vornaskotti: Always glad to hear from a caver! We're waiting to hear back from comixology. In the meantime, there are the pdfs, and I'll be putting up a jpg file ASAP. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266057#Comment_266057</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:39:35 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>adam_geen</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Steve, if you don't mind me asking. I noticed you have stock of the trade on your Etsy store. How did you get a hold of so much stock to fulfill the orders? Did you work out some kind of deal where you can buy wholesale from Image?<br /><br />Hit me with an email or PM if it's a private thing. But, as an Image creator myself, I wouldn't mind knowing. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266259#Comment_266259</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:17:15 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>pi8you</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @Steve - Delurking to say I've got the entirety of the thread if you so desire, getting stickied and running for DAYS like it did is just something that doesn't happen for an an indie comic (hell, its a rare enough thing for anything short of BIG Big 2 news to get stickied), so you made a pretty big splash on our dark little abode even after you and Erika left.<br /><br />There were still a couple copies of the trade on the shelf at my LCS on Wednesday, I'm keeping a curious eye open to see if that changes next week.<br /><br />Storytimes can be among the best threads on /co/, not only because they expose people to things they hadn't heard of (there was an absurd collective freakout of joy upon seeing Boom's Darkwing Duck) and usually lead to a few people saying they're looking for their own copies (I've picked up at least a half-dozen things this way), but also because it's a great group reading for people that don't have a local circle to talk books, we can just go and point and say LOOK HOW AWESOME THAT IS/WOW, THAT WAS DUMB (or just cry to the heavens in the case of Ruins). ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266287#Comment_266287</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:20:53 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @Adam: Parker and I had bought a bunch of copies for con season, and fortunately we had plenty left. We've burned through all those books and have reordered directly from Image. Just email your editor/file-wrangler-guy for info.<br /><br />@pi8you Thanks! Go ahead and send me the archive! I'd like to be able to post up the whole thing ( unless things got really ugly after Erika and I left.)<br /><br />SL ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266313#Comment_266313</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2010 02:22:25 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Alastair</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @ oddcult, lost boys 3:the thirst (urgh) is already out<br /><br />@steve good to see someone embracing the future ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266330#Comment_266330</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:15:03 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Warped Savant</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Mr. Lieber-Bieber... It's one thing to have a comic that you drew for yourself being put up on the internet for free but what are your thoughts of torrent sites where you can go and download someone's entire body of work fairly easily? Sure, there are people out there that will give it a read through and then go out and buy it but at the same time I know a few people that won't ever buy a comic because they can simply download them for free. Heck, someone I know talks about being a huge comic fan but I don't think he's bought a comic for a few years now. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266340#Comment_266340</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:52:27 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>stsparky</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Yesterday, the incident was slash dotted ... and everyone came off looking good. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266347#Comment_266347</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:56:18 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>GregCarter</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Does it suck that creators and publishers don't get a choice of whether their work is posted for free? Yeah. And the more sites that can be challenged and taken down the better just on principle. But otherwise you have to ignore the free-loaders and concentrate on finding paying customers. <br /><br />I look at it this way, all the people that don't buy my comic weren't going to buy it anyway whether they read it for free on the web or not. Taking control and posting it on the web myself greatly expands the reach to find more people that WILL buy it. Those are the only people to care about. Post the low-fi website (or PDF) version for free, then supply a print and/or higher-quality (easy to get and read) digital version for a decent price. <br /><br />For a site that has professional advice on competing in the (web)Comics Economy 2010, check out <a href="http://www.webcomics.com" >Webcomics.com</a>. It's a subscription site but I've found it to be well worth the price of admission. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266706#Comment_266706</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:23:58 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>PintSizedCat</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ two quick things, firstly I want to get the singles, covers look awesome too.<br />secondly, I've never really known if others brought a paintbrush to a point in their mouth, used to do it when painting warhammer models back when I had more time. Glad to know others do, or did, is all :) ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266723#Comment_266723</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:57:13 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Paul Duffield</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @Steve Lieber<br />Wow, well handled!<br />I'm interested, do you have any reason to believe that you'd have got the bump in sales + attention from the 4chan thread if you hadn't waded in there, or if you'd done so in a different manner?<br />It's hard to be on the internet without bumping into piracy and discussion about piracy, and I think this has lead to people I know making "principled purchases" putting their money where their respect is (both for product and person behind product), or "purchases of consciousness", putting their money where their guilt is (often after a conversation or decision about the ethics of piracy). I can't imagine anything more effective at generating both types of purchase than a creator directly & politely engaging people in the process of pirating their work! It'd be interesting to know how powerful a motivation these things are - when encountered in a closed situation like this, do they add a few percent to sales, or do they double sales, or more? ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266739#Comment_266739</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:45:11 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>James Puckett</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ <em >…do they add a few percent to sales, or do they double sales, or more?</em><br /><br />That’s always the kind of question I have about the “free content=content sales” argument. What does a spike in the sales of a graphic novel mean? Is the spike just some extra spending money in relation to the tremendous amount of writing, drawing, etc. that go into a book? Are these spikes repeatable, or just flukes? For example, Cory Doctorow loves to point out that Monty Python saw a massive DVD sale spike when their videos hit YouTube, but what has happened in the time since? Can someone actually make a living off this stuff—at least someone who doesn’t run the internet’s most popular linkblog? And are spikes like these worth considering in contrast to the massive volume of material that doesn’t appear linked to sales at all? Or are they just mathematical noise that falls outside the spectrum of events worth analyzing? ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266747#Comment_266747</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 00:52:00 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ @Paul, @James: You both raise good questions, but I'm not the guy to offer useful answers. You want a Scott Kurtz or a Meredith Gran, people who have demonstrated that they know how to build a supportive audience in the free comics economy. I haven't done that. <br /><br />(Edit: my overblown metaphor with Mad Men spoiler deleted.) ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 05:49:55 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>rickiep00h</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ I'm curious as to what would have happened had you <em >not</em> shown up. Because there were more than a few "oh, um, oops" responses and I'm wondering how many people got guilted into buying a book they wouldn't have otherwise. That's not to say that the book isn't good on its own, but an astonishing number of people will do the right thing when they realize they've been caught doing the wrong thing.<br /><br />I'm also annoyed by the people that are all "Fuck you, you're still just selling shit." The people that expect things for free <em >just because they could be</em> bother the hell out of me. Entitled assholes. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=266908#Comment_266908</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:30:36 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Vornaskotti</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ James:<br /><br />Those are good points. Steve, I think a follow-up after a month or two would be interesting to all of us, who are interested in digital distribution business - did the sales spike thing translate to any kind of increase in overall sales?<br /><br />rickiep00h:<br /><br />Yeah, people like that are short sighted stupid kids. I guess the best response there is "Umm... yeah, I am? I love it that you enjoy my work, but I won't mind at all if you go buy it - here, I made it easy for you, have fun with this!" ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=268182#Comment_268182</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:10:17 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Steve Lieber</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ <blockquote >"I think a follow-up after a month or two would be interesting to all of us, who are interested in digital distribution business - did the sales spike thing translate to any kind of increase in overall sales?"</blockquote><br /><br />It'll be a few more months than that. As freelancers, we get statements every 4 or 6 months. We also won't have anything to compare it to except the initial order.  The Amazon rankings were great, but it's hard to say what actual numbers they represent, and I'm not even sure if bookstore sales will be isolated in the next statement.<br /><br />Geez. People ask for clarity and all I've got to offer is the fog of war. Sorry about that.  I'm feeling my way through the darkness on this stuff too. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=268235#Comment_268235</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:08:57 -0700</pubDate>
		<author>Vornaskotti</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Steve:<br /><br /><blockquote >Geez. People ask for clarity and all I've got to offer is the fog of war. Sorry about that. I'm feeling my way through the darkness on this stuff too.</blockquote><br /><br />Heh, don't worry about it - this is one field where everybody is still stumbling through a fog of war. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=275678#Comment_275678</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:05:21 -0800</pubDate>
		<author>Vornaskotti</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Any news of Underground appearing in Comixology? That service has really kicked my comics hobby to high gear, I think I've dropped about 200€ in there in the last month and a half alone :) ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=276017#Comment_276017</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:16:11 -0800</pubDate>
		<author>Darthmoga</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Dozed off after reading this thread.<br />Just woke up with the idea that just maybe, all it would take to make this viable is for one high-profile creator team to:<br /> - hook up with a gutsy advertiser<br /> - compile a CBR themselves, Ads included<br /> - Realease the CBR themselves to piratebay/demonoid, or hook up with minutmen/DCP and have them include it in their packs.<br />A bonus would be that the creators could include finished art, instead of scans, and have it look better than anything else in said packs.<br />Also, the download numbers could be easily tracked (seeds/leachers) and the gutsy advertisers would have reason to feel smug.<br /><br />...<br />Or maybe I haven't woken up completely yet. ]]>
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		<title>Steve Lieber: Weirdness with my book and 4Chan.</title>
		<link>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9067&amp;Focus=276018#Comment_276018</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:18:59 -0800</pubDate>
		<author>Darthmoga</author>
		<description>
			<![CDATA[ Also I agree with<a href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/?CommentID=266770" > rickiepooh's read</a> on the situation. ]]>
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