Whitechapel - Fountain of Youth? 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272228#Comment_272228 2010-11-29T13:24:50-08:00 2010-11-29T13:50:46-08:00 ilauveyou http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=9224 We might have found it. (PhysOrg.com) -- Harvard scientists at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute say they have for the first time partially reversed age-related degeneration in mice, resulting in new ... We might have found it.

(PhysOrg.com) -- Harvard scientists at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute say they have for the first time partially reversed age-related degeneration in mice, resulting in new growth of the brain and testes, improved fertility, and the return of a lost cognitive function.
]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272236#Comment_272236 2010-11-29T13:59:05-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Redwynd http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=653 Regenerative tissue? Count me in as a test subject. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272239#Comment_272239 2010-11-29T14:10:55-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 ilauveyou http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=9224 Mwahaha. Right, though? Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272240#Comment_272240 2010-11-29T14:12:33-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 RenThing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155 So that means the people with the money to get these treatments will be living longer while those who don't won't? Fun times.
Fun times.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272242#Comment_272242 2010-11-29T14:13:31-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 SteadyUP http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5302 Finally, the youthful testes I've always wanted. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272244#Comment_272244 2010-11-29T14:27:26-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 RenThing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155 I can just imagine a new character of Warren's, some old wizened guy with a young man's testicles. *shudder* Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272245#Comment_272245 2010-11-29T14:29:00-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 NeilFord http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=8364 I'd get my brain done first, then my junk. Put me down for some kangaroo legs too. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272252#Comment_272252 2010-11-29T15:23:49-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Verissimus http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379 [quote]So that means the people with the money to get these treatments will be living longer while those who don't won't? Fun times. [/quote] Yeah, that's also my main problem with this sort ...
Fun times. [/quote]

Yeah, that's also my main problem with this sort of discovery.

Still, one can't stop science. And God knows I've tried!]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272256#Comment_272256 2010-11-29T15:58:11-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 StefanJ http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=961 Imagine if it works, but in the process of rejuvenating your brain your forget 90% of what you know. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272275#Comment_272275 2010-11-29T19:03:04-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 oddbill http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4272 Imagine if it works, but in the process of rejuvenating your brain your forget 90% of what you know. Without rejuvenating your brain, you're still risking forgetting most of what you now know, ... Imagine if it works, but in the process of rejuvenating your brain your forget 90% of what you know.

Without rejuvenating your brain, you're still risking forgetting most of what you now know, only it wouldn't be because of a nice new rejuvenated brain.

I read a book recently called Long For This World, on the topic of the state of the art and current thinking related to gerontology, and though beautifully written and full of loads of great information I did not already know about how we age, about what is happening on levels macro and micro, I came away from it more pessimistic about the potential for the occasional news story like this one than I have ever been.

You pretty much have to cure every possible failure mode of the human body all at the same time, or else you are just eliminating one likely demise in favor of another. So, you have youthful balls, but still cancer. Or you've prevented certain types of cancer, but your arteries thin and rupture. And on and on.

In the end it appears that, as long as cells can possibly reproduce we are doomed to die, because the very act of cell reproduction on the enormous scale under which it occurs in our bodies guarantees that unpreventable disastrous errors will eventually creep in. Aubrey De Grey eventually proposes the actual sterilization of every cell in the human body, to be periodically reversed under controlled treatment conditions every 7 years or so, as a solution.

I'll take renewed neuroplasticity if it is available, but I'm not holding out much hope for turning back the clock on my whole body. Not in my lifetime, at any rate.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272282#Comment_272282 2010-11-29T20:15:38-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 audientvoid http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=9503 Even if this isn't a means to regain one's youth, if it leads to a treatment for senility and Alzheimer's, I'm all for it. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272284#Comment_272284 2010-11-29T21:05:25-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Rootfireember http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1551 .... unfortunately in humans, increasing telemorase tends to cause cancer, or at least be highly linked with it. So no immortality for us humans. So no immortality for us humans.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272290#Comment_272290 2010-11-29T22:34:23-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 SteadyUP http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5302 If you say so, Root - more serum for us. =) Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272310#Comment_272310 2010-11-30T03:04:42-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 keyofsilence http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7294 THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272312#Comment_272312 2010-11-30T03:07:13-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Fan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919 > You pretty much have to cure every possible failure mode of the human body all at the same time, or else you are just eliminating one likely demise in favor of another. Alternatively you have ... You pretty much have to cure every possible failure mode of the human body all at the same time, or else you are just eliminating one likely demise in favor of another.

Alternatively you have to extend lifespan by 'x' years, and then within those extra years find more ways (or improve on existing ways) to extend the lifespan further.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272329#Comment_272329 2010-11-30T06:22:18-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 mister hex http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4411 As an aside, in fiction of all sorts, this type of thing NEVER goes well. Never ever. So take that for what it's worth. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272331#Comment_272331 2010-11-30T06:30:55-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 keyofsilence http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7294 I'd consider youth-enising my brain and then just sticking it into a robotic body. Boom, no more need for an immortality serum that cures all of the body's ailments simultaneously. I would then ...
I would then screw with people by pulling the skin off my arm Terminator-style.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272384#Comment_272384 2010-11-30T13:14:22-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 SilentObjector http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2587 @newspaperdrone If you really want to euthanise your brain, try a sharp stick or a large rock. If you really want to euthanise your brain, try a sharp stick or a large rock.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272385#Comment_272385 2010-11-30T13:18:51-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 StefanJ http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=961 Actually immortality would probably suck for society in many ways. Sterling's Holy Fire suggests a few. But you could sum it up with: Imagine living in a world where Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin ... Holy Fire suggests a few. But you could sum it up with: Imagine living in a world where Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are around forever.

But as audientvoid suggests, just being able to ensure that your later years aren't spent babbling in confusion and lying in your own filth in a nursing home would be quite acceptable. Living in good health until you are 90 and then collapsing into dust might not be a bad thing.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272399#Comment_272399 2010-11-30T14:35:26-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 256 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4827 So that means the people with the money to get these treatments will be living longer while those who don't won't? Yeah, that's also my main problem with this sort of discovery. I don't know where ... So that means the people with the money to get these treatments will be living longer while those who don't won't?
Yeah, that's also my main problem with this sort of discovery.

I don't know where you're going with this. It's not as if a specific longevity treatment would be the first thing to make the rich live longer than the poor. Nor would the solution to this problem appear to be refusing to invent a longevity treatment.

So what's the relevance of the statement?]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272402#Comment_272402 2010-11-30T14:45:28-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Fan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919 > Nor would the solution to this problem appear to be refusing to invent a longevity treatment. It would in a way: at the moment, people can say, "Oh well, at least everyone dies, we're ... Nor would the solution to this problem appear to be refusing to invent a longevity treatment.

It would in a way: at the moment, people can say, "Oh well, at least everyone dies, we're all equal," or words to that effect.

I'm not saying whether it's a good solution, but it's a part of people's current solution.

Aubrey De Grey's TED talk starts with mentioning various arguments against inventing longetivity, including e.g. "dictators would live forever".]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272404#Comment_272404 2010-11-30T14:56:28-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Brendan McGinley http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=93 If I devised a fountain of youth? Judiciously and quietly apply it to the most beneficent souls with the brightest minds in society. Imagine Einstein's island of the enlightened out there somewhere ... Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272406#Comment_272406 2010-11-30T15:08:35-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Fan http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919 > Judiciously and quietly apply it to the most beneficent souls with the brightest minds in society. Maybe, just maybe, those souls are working to improve the lives of the world's poorest, not ... Judiciously and quietly apply it to the most beneficent souls with the brightest minds in society.

Maybe, just maybe, those souls are working to improve the lives of the world's poorest, not of the richest.

And they are increasing life expectancy: by reducing infant mortality, for example.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272412#Comment_272412 2010-11-30T15:25:22-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 RenThing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155 @253 and Fan Nor would the solution to this problem appear to be refusing to invent a longevity treatment. It would in a way: at the moment, people can say, "Oh well, at least everyone ...
Nor would the solution to this problem appear to be refusing to invent a longevity treatment.

It would in a way: at the moment, people can say, "Oh well, at least everyone dies, we're all equal," or words to that effect.

The assumption is, as with all things medical, those with the money and funds for such a treatment (or therapy or whatever) would be able to get it and those without, obviously, would not, natch those with money living extended lifetimes while the poor don't. The only real equality in life is that we all die in the end.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272419#Comment_272419 2010-11-30T16:04:42-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Artenshiur http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=8804 @Fan and RenThing That seems an awful lot like an argument from spite. Sure the selection process may be flawed, but some people would live longer. How is that a bad thing? Not to say that ...
That seems an awful lot like an argument from spite. Sure the selection process may be flawed, but some people would live longer. How is that a bad thing?

Not to say that this necessarily would extend human life per se. Or even be worth doing, given the risks.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272427#Comment_272427 2010-11-30T17:55:04-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Comicbookbunny http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5151 zombies? could go horridly wrong or could go ok lets test people and find out! could be our very own zombie Apocalypse. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272435#Comment_272435 2010-11-30T18:49:07-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 RenThing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155 @Artenshiur Not spite, simple statement of fact. Those with money get to live with treatable medical conditions like diabetes or heart issues and have a better chance of surviving serious illness ...
Not spite, simple statement of fact. Those with money get to live with treatable medical conditions like diabetes or heart issues and have a better chance of surviving serious illness like cancer simply because they have the money and resources to do so; the poor don't and die. So, why would this be any different if aging is simply reduced (in the far, sci-fi future) to a treatable condition? Notice that at no point did I ever say that this was a reason to not do it.

However, a reason to not do it is, frankly, a matter of resources; particular resources are already showing signs of strain or running out (such as areas that have become over-fished due to demand or areas that are already super-congested as far as the number of people living in one area) and that's with a population with the self-correcting factor of death. How much worse could it be in the event that they manage to make a treatment that not only extends the life times of humans but also extends the time in which they are potentially fertile? Combine long life times with a high reproduction rate with a lengthy viable time and I'd anticipate such resource issues getting a lot worse.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272465#Comment_272465 2010-11-30T21:45:34-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 johnjones http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1052 If I devised a fountain of youth? Judiciously and quietly apply it to the most beneficent souls with the brightest minds in society. Imagine Einstein's island of the enlightened out there somewhere ... If I devised a fountain of youth? Judiciously and quietly apply it to the most beneficent souls with the brightest minds in society. Imagine Einstein's island of the enlightened out there somewhere already.

And how would you ensure that those souls would stay beneficent? We have the Nobel Prize because Alfred Noble read of worldwide celebrations at the mistaken announcement of his death. Nobel established the prize because death was coming and he didn't want to be remembered as a monster. People are complicated and subject to change. Turn Mother Teresa into an 18 year old girl and you might get another lifetime of service to God and man from her. Or, you may get the next Paris Hilton.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272466#Comment_272466 2010-11-30T21:49:49-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 BrianMowrey http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1709 Net value of this strikes me as zero no matter what. The exceptional individuals argument is 50/50, could be positive (smart inventor) or negative (jerk demagogue). The personal experience argument ... Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272470#Comment_272470 2010-11-30T22:46:11-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Rootfireember http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1551 Just questionspinning here. If you have people living forever, how would the economy handle it? would there be enough jobs for people if they remained in the workforce fore infinity, and still ...
If you have people living forever, how would the economy handle it? would there be enough jobs for people if they remained in the workforce fore infinity, and still kept on having kids? Where would their kids get jobs? What would happen when you got bored and ran out of stuff to do? If the poor could not afford it (and I suspect they wouldn't), it could be seen as a social status thing, in addition to that; and how could the poor compete for higher-wage, higher-expertise jobs when they would have only a fraction of the lifetime to learn whatever super extended education we'd come up with?

Also; if you can heal from pretty much anything, how would that impact society? Would ER trips become a thing of the past? Childhood fights, broken arms, etc. become seen as less of a big deal? Would it make brave actions less so, because, well, you could just heal from whatever? How would this impact friendships, or the value we put on others? Would a non forever-living-human be less valuable than a forever-living one?]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272487#Comment_272487 2010-12-01T01:34:12-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Ben Klumaster http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2723 It's worth considering that a fountain of eternal youth doesn't necessarily make you immortal. Death by accident or crime will just become the primary way to die. And we'll all become very, very ... Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272564#Comment_272564 2010-12-01T19:22:38-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 SteadyUP http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5302 Hickman's Posthuman actually addresses a lot of this. In short... ...If we become functionally immortal, we'll stop evolving - at which point, the monkeys come for us. Imagine Einstein's island ...
...If we become functionally immortal, we'll stop evolving - at which point, the monkeys come for us.


Imagine Einstein's island of the enlightened out there somewhere already.

If Einstein were still alive and active today, we'd be sitting here talking about how he totally jumped the shark back in the 60s. Being dead is part of what makes people like him seem so awesome years later.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272588#Comment_272588 2010-12-02T01:47:17-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Ben Klumaster http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2723 @SteadyUP That cuts both ways though - it also means that Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin, though they're around forever as mentioned, are around long enough that people can get sick of them. And since ... Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272608#Comment_272608 2010-12-02T06:13:28-08:00 2010-12-02T06:14:33-08:00 NeilFord http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=8364 Would near immortality make murder an even more henious crime? And LIFE in jail even less attractive? More to lose for victim and criminal? Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272620#Comment_272620 2010-12-02T07:54:54-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 city creed http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4530 Fears of death and what follows it spawn monsters in human minds. Those might not be so easily slain as silly old death itself. @NeilFord - It does raise the stakes. But only if everyone gets the ...
@NeilFord - It does raise the stakes. But only if everyone gets the youth potion. People with no eternity to lose could be a real liability to have around.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272621#Comment_272621 2010-12-02T07:58:56-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 gzapata http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4899 Also it can be cut both ways. Rush and Palin and their version of conservatism essentially pushes for the immediate satisfaction rather than the long term good of the people. I think people would be ...
I can see it now- Crap we've destroyed the climate, have a mass population of uneducated idiots and only us, dogs, crows and cockroaches are left on the planet]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272623#Comment_272623 2010-12-02T08:12:47-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Verissimus http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379 @steadyuop; yeah I agree there's a danger we'd stop evolving. Dying and making way for a new generation is what facilitates change and new ideas. If we lived forever, how many times would we have to ...
Say immortality had come about in the 19th century. Would that mean we'd all remain narrowminded Victorian prudes until the end of time?]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272712#Comment_272712 2010-12-02T17:25:02-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Phranky http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4286 It reminds me of characters in Geoff Ryman's "The Child Garden" that were hundreds of years old because they consisted entirely of immortal cancer cells that retained their host's memories. Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272745#Comment_272745 2010-12-02T23:12:46-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 Artenshiur http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=8804 My apologies, RenThing, I made an unwarranted assumption. Anyway, I plan on living forever, so this is good news. Though I'd always assumed I'd be doing it Hob Gadling style, so it's not that ...
Anyway, I plan on living forever, so this is good news. Though I'd always assumed I'd be doing it Hob Gadling style, so it's not that important.]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272877#Comment_272877 2010-12-03T16:36:33-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 hanjean http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=8930 Lucky for those of you interested in the science - you've got a girl here who works in a telomere biology lab! The basics: at the end of each DNA strand, there is a string of nonsense DNA repeats, ...
The basics: at the end of each DNA strand, there is a string of nonsense DNA repeats, called the telomeres. Every time a cell in your body divides, a little bit of the DNA ends are snipped off in the process - thus these nonsense telomeres help protect the internals parts of the DNA that code for proteins that you actually need. A hypothesis is that a cause of aging is that most of the telomeres are gone because of the many cell divisions over time, so that either the cell notices they are too short and shuts down, or your necessary DNA is clipped and the cell dies.

Many organisms have an enzyme that can rebuilt these telomeres - telomerase. We humans only have this enzyme in our eggs or sperm.

The 2 major issues with this study are:

1) Mice normally have telomerase active, so their normal aging process would not be related to telomere shortening. Thus knocking it out and adding it back in, as the researchers did, might have a different result than if it were done in humans.

2) Almost all cancers eventually mutate to have telomerase active, allowing them to divide indefinitely. Activating telomerase in our own cells would not cause cancer in itself, but rather if cancer did develop, it would have one less step to take before it became deadly.

Thanks for reading (if you got through it!)]]> Fountain of Youth? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=9234&Focus=272956#Comment_272956 2010-12-04T08:54:28-08:00 2013-06-19T00:27:57-07:00 RenThing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155 @hanjean Thank you.
Thank you.]]>