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Culturegasm: Game of Thrones Discussion
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I'll just leave this here: coins inspired by the works of George R. R. Martin
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- CommentAuthormagnusisasillyname
- CommentTimeJun 7th 2012
Those coins are ugly. :p -
Just got caught up on the last two episodes. Blackwater Bay was excellent and the look Tyrion gave Joffrey after the explosions had finished was priceless.
Re: Dany and the vault:If he's locked up in the vault, then he can't have the conversation with her outside the walls of Mereen in the latest book, just like Khal Drogo's bloodrider who Jorah killed won't be there at the end of that book either. I wonder how they're going to explain it. -
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CommentAuthorRootfireember
- CommentTimeJun 10th 2012
Irri's actor from the serries did an AMA thread on reddit :) Thought you guys might enjoy. -
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Am I correct in my recollection that Arya did not get Needle back?
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- CommentAuthormagnusisasillyname
- CommentTimeJun 12th 2012
- No, but then
she doesn't get it back until book 3, I seem to remember.
I have been routinely complaining about small changes to things throughout this season, and have routinely been told to shut up by all my friends, however I feel that a lot of the changes not only alter the plot of the story, but also fundamentally change characters motivation in some instances.
Example 1:Robb and Catelyn after she frees Jaime - Far from accusing her of treachery and being the grumpy, teenage king that we saw portrayed on screen, Robb immediately, and deviously seizes the opportunity to forgive his mother, firstly because he completely empathises with her having lost her husband, two younger sons and possibly her younger daughter, and secondly because he has just done a massive whoopsy by marrying Jeyne Westerling and pissing off the Freys. "Who hasn't done things they shouldn't have for love?" or somesuch [I am aware that I'm paraphrasing, clearly.]
Ok, not a massive thing, you could argue, but...
Example 2:Jon Snow vs Qorin Halfhand - Where is the conversation between them where Jon is explicitly told what he will have to do in order to gain the wildlings' trust? Where is Qorin ordering him to act as a spy? In the show, Jon basically just killed Qorin on a whim, or so it seems. I'd say "Do what you have to do" is a pretty weak reason to kill someone who respect and fear. [Again, paraphrasing, but you get the idea.] You'd at least want to double check with the guy to make quite certain that was what he meant before running your blade through his chest. Or maybe bastard blood really is cursed.
Example 3:Arya - In the books, Arya is a badass. I was a little bit annoyed at the end of season 1, when she ran the first fat kid through. I felt that the show portrayed it as more of an accident than it was in the book, where she very deliberately kills the kid to keep him quiet. Ok, maybe not a massive deal, but again, a change in motivation, and one that gets more serious at Harrenhal. The changes to the Ghost in Harrenhal sequence I can kind of understand, as introducing new characters just to kill them doesn't translate well from book to screen, but Arya doesn't need Jaqen to help them escape, she saunters over and slits the guard's throat herself. All the way through, Martin goes out of his way to show Arya as someone with a growing desire to kill, and ultimately it is that desire that drives her onwards in her arc towards the Faceless men. I just don't buy that TV Arya is bold enough or ruthless enough to essentially give herself over to a cult of assassins.
Ok, I'm going to stop now. There are other minor examples, but those are the big three that I feel, as the series progresses (and I hope they do shoot it all) that are going to result in bigger changes later on.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. -
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CommentAuthordorkmuffin
- CommentTimeJun 12th 2012
HEAR HEAR, Magnusisasillyname. -
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Well, with your example 2, magnusisasillyname, I haven't read the books but it seemed completely unambiguous to me in the show that Halfhand wanted Jon to kill him to gain the trust of the wildlings; indeed, I think it would have come across as a bit heavy-handed if Halfhand had explicitly spelled this out. I guess it's easier to communicate this kind of implication through body language etc on TV than in books, so this kind of change makes sense.
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Example 2 -Qorin does bring up the idea of a spy in Mance's army would be worth and I quote "1000 men on the wall" so it's not just on a whim.
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- CommentAuthormagnusisasillyname
- CommentTimeJun 13th 2012
Ok, interesting to hear that viewpoint, voyou. I guess I just felt a bit robbed.Qorin and Jon repeating their Night's Watch oath together, Qorin knowing and Jon half-knowing what they would have to do next, was one of the most powerful passages towards the end of CoK. Jon at this point is a follower. Due to the stigma of his bastard blood, and hugely influenced by Lord Eddard's unwavering devotion to honour, he is constantly wracked with doubts about whether what he's doing is "right." That Jon really needed Qorin to be pretty explicit. Or at least that was my take on it."I'll do as you say," Jon said reluctantly, "but...you will tell them, won't you? The Old Bear, at least? You'll tell him that I never broke my oath."
Qorin Halfhand gazed at him across the fire, his eyes lost in pools of shadow. "When I see him next. I swear it."
It seems as if the programme makers are trying to make all the characters slightly less effective than Martin makes them, and I get that this may simply be to provide more character development as the story arcs develop. It just irritates me. Changes to reduce the amount of characters, or to solve timing problems (expect the Meereenese Knot to be deftly sliced in twain) are fine, but changes that fundamentally alter the characters themselves just get my Vargo Hoat. -
I don't disagree with you but I think it comes down to what is necessary to convey what is happening vs. time constraints, right? I mean, Martin has pages and pages to go on about and build up scenes to their conclusions. HBO has about five minutes, over two episodes, to get it set up and done.
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CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
- CommentTimeJun 13th 2012
I'll be honest - this is mostly why I haven't started in on the books yet:
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I'm wondering if the TV series will push Martin to write a bit faster. They've already gone through the first two book. If they keep to that schedule, they'll be through the next three by 2015. That's just four years from the last book. And then he'd need to have book 7 done by 2016 to keep to schedule.
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Well, they've stated that the plan for book three is to cover two seasons, and since books four and five happen sort of simultaneously and then over-lap I could see those two being three seasons between the two of them. Martin's said that he used some of what he originally wrote in Dance for the next book and he's had a year so far to work on book six so I hope he'll get it done faster (at least we don't have to worry about the Mereenese Knot issue).
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Five episodes in and I got no complaints.
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CommentAuthorCat Vincent
- CommentTimeJun 16th 2012 edited
As for locking Xaro Xhoan Daxos in the vault...A man as ruthless, talented and smart as Daxos would have had to be to gain his position would likely never be dumb enough to build an inpregenable vault with only one key - and tell people it's impregnable and only has one key - without having a hidden back door. He'll get out. And he'll be pissed. -
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I was apparently at the event where this made it's debut (Woot Stock Founders' Night in SF last year). Paul and Storm are lovely people (and talented as fuck).
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