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  1.  (9904.1)
    @Seantaclaus: Yeah, losing the jacket is a good thing, but it seems Lee's reacted to the "give the ladies pants" directive by removing the 1 element from the JMS costume that needed to be kept: the shoulder straps, the lack of which was the #1complaint about the bathing suit.

    The big test of the digital component is whether ot not that money is going to get you a physical file that lives on your computer and is yours to do with as you want, or whther they're going to go the cloud model with the file kept on a remote server that they can alter or remove as they please.
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      CommentAuthorPhoenyx
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     (9904.2)
    AWESOME SAUCE!
  3.  (9904.3)
    I don't think any of the big superhero characters is "irreparably broken". Good writers can still use them to tell their stories.

    Also continuity is not a problem I think as long as writers aren't paralyzed by it; what Morrison is doing in his Batman books is using the entire history of the character to his advantage.
  4.  (9904.4)
    saying that the problem with dc is that they need to have a relaunch without superheroes is like saying that MLB baseball should start playing football because you personally have gotten bored with baseball?

    i think a lot of the problems people have with the DCU is that they have 'outgrown' it as adults but keep reading, and so dc is doing these weird, half assed 'mature' stories with characters where that doesnt work. i hate to admit it because it would mean i dont care about a lot of the new line, but these books arent really FOR us. i mean shit, im 30 years old. if super-comics start skewing a bit younger than my tastes, thats where they SHOULD be really. its probably why i dropped almost all DC stuff in the past few years...
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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     (9904.5)
    I stand by my statement about Superman and Wonder Woman being "irreparably broken" and can offer further insights into what exactly I mean by this. Wonder Woman has had so many "bold new directions" and changes to her status quo that there's nothing that can really be done with her anymore that hasn't been done already. Is she still an ambassador of peace? Is she still a warrior-woman? Does she still have a connection to mythology or to the world of espionage? I'll admit that there may have been fine WW comics recently - I obviously haven't read them but from what I can gather, people liked Greg Rucka and Gail Simone's runs - and I used to read WW waaaay back when it was frankly terrible (I'm talking well before the first Crisis). Her character has been so muddled, there isn't anything there anymore.

    Superman is a slightly different story. When John Byrne rebooted him 25 years ago (jeez, I'm OLD), he got rid of all the extraneous elements that have all since been brought back by various writers(no Beppo the Super Monkey yet but I'm hoping). Now, I love me some goofy old Silver Age Superman but trying to make him "relevant" has destroyed my interest in the character. JMS's "walkabout" storyline was pretty dumb and the story in Action 900 (where he renounces his citizenship) was risible in linking the protests of the Arab Spring to a goofy superhero. Real people are being killed protesting for freedom and I scarcely think that's fodder for a Superman story.
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011 edited
     (9904.6)
    But mr Hex , I think the character, like for instance Wonder Woman, is a cypher. it doesn't really have any quality of its own, it can be everything you describe and more: ambassador of peace, warrior woman, Greek goddess, BDSM enthusiast, international mysterious espionage lady, whatever. The fact that a lot of people have written a lot of bad stories about her, really shouldn't matter for a new writer. Just take any of the directions that are possible with the character if they fit within the story you want to tell, and go from there. For a talented writer, these characters can be molded in whatever way you please. They're never broken, except maybe for the really bad characters, like Tyroc, or Armless Tiger Man.

    I sometimes feel there's a difference between the American view of these characters and the European view; for the American public, the stories have to be "true" to the character, and the character has some intrinsic meaning, some relevance which the writer has to express. Whereas European readers like the iconoclastic treatment of the character; put a slightly different spin on it, take it in some odd new direction. I have no interest in any character as long as they're being written badly. But when it's announced that Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang are going to do Wonder Woman, I start getting interested.
  7.  (9904.7)
    There's something up at Bleeding Cool that claims the reboot was forced on them from above by corporate cretins...and that Johns and Didio and Morrison have been fighting to stop it from happening...sounds unlikely,but can you imagine?

    Fine ,it's the way of the fucking world but C'mon!When will the talent get the upper hand?

    Maybe the creators were all for it,but this seems fishy.

    It'd turn you off writing comics man, you've got us baffled readers at one side sounding off and constant pestering by management on the other...guess piping up just adds to it.

    If they've messed with Morrison's 5 year labour of love they're scum.

    Alan Moore's first reaction to this reboot was funny i bet.just guessin.
  8.  (9904.8)
    There's something up at Bleeding Cool that claims the reboot was forced on them from above by corporate cretins

    You should actually go and re-read that piece.
    • CommentAuthorMaC
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     (9904.9)
    I'm not too excited. From the announcements so far it just looks like DC is shuffling around the writers and artists it already had. Which is not at all exciting. And not worth losing Morrison's Batman Inc for. Maybe I'll be less annoyed if they allow Inc to continue separately as an elseworlds companion to this nuDC but for the most part I'm really frustrated that the story that's basically the reason I even go into a comic store anymore is getting shut down so the Justice League can have a bunch of V-Necks and Wonder Woman can have a choker that gives her a V-Neck.

    I dunno, waiting to see the creative teams on the remaining titles, cause that's what matters. But from what I am seeing here, the NuDC doesn't seem worth the potential price of admission, losing Batman Inc.
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      CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     (9904.10)
    52 new titles. 52 Earths. the "Leviathan" thing-y in Morrison's Batman run probably has ties to the ReBootening. Then again maybe not! Maybe it is one big ballsy strategic "fuck you, we're One More Day'ing this whole universe!"
  11.  (9904.11)
    Naw Warren, I'm aware Rich says it's bullshit,and Senior Execs say it's bullshit,that's why I peppered my comments with 'maybes'....it's just i don't trust the megacorporations and marketeers and I was basically just trying to back up you and the rest of the talented dudes.
  12.  (9904.12)
    @J.Brennan: Of course I am.
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      CommentAuthorJon Wake
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     (9904.13)
    Listen all, it's a mistake to associate this with some perceived problem with superheroes. The problem with superheroes is that you never get to end their story. Ever. They're stuck in a permanent 2nd act, and the writer has to wring some dramatic blood from that stone. All the Crisis, crossover absurdity is the only sane reaction to getting stuck with those characters for fifteen odd years of your life. Y'all know why Dark Reign was (on the whole) good? Because Osborn followed a dramatic arc. It was predictable, but it was still there. You don't get to do that with Superman. Morrison managed to turn that into a strength, but that's because he's a genius. Guys like Ed Brubaker get around that by putting minor characters in lead roles, letting them tell actual story.

    Nextwave did not care about such pittances. Nextwave punched your character arc in the dickhole.

    I'll tell you what I'd do if I suddenly had superhuman control over the industry.

    I know you're curious. Come closer.

    First, I'd fold as many titles into each other as possible. The whole Bat Family would get one, maybe two books. Then I'd make the books come out weekly, juggling writers the same way 52 did. Of course, 52 almost killed the writers, but that was just because the system wasn't set up for it. There's be skip weeks, of course, and down times. TV writers do it all the time. David Simon hears your whining and cares not. Each book would be internally consistent, but there'd be no great pressure to make the Superman line jibe with the Batman line. If you want to launch a big event book, it's its own book and you advertise in the respective lines. If the Batman team wants to have an A plot with Superman, there's no need to make sure Superman isn't punching space-Hitler into Tau Ceti that month, just have him show up.

    At the end of the month, or the end of the quarter, you publish a big old Shonen Jump style paperback trade and let it go to the few remaining bookstores. That's your bread and butter. This way, you can have your high profile creators, your Warrens and Grants and Gregs writing stand-alone takes on characters without fucking with your beloved continuity.

    There. I am genii. Give me gold.
  14.  (9904.14)
    I like your ideas, John Wake.
  15.  (9904.15)
    Jon that's so fucking crazy it could probably just work!

    They'll never do it of course, but the idea of wrapping say the Batman environment into two books (say, the Bat Family in one book, and the police/birds of prey/The question in the other), would be a lot more interesting. Each week would concentrate on a certain character arc, so batman one week, Nightwing another, Batgirl the next. It would allow each character to get their space (albeit with a smaller issue size), but i could probably find myself buying the singles especially if they were, say, issues digitally with a slightly cheaper price. Which is what they want don't they. And this whole container line could allow for many character to properly die off i hope...

    It would probably kill the writers/ artists, but maybe it could start DC properly fostering some decent new talent.
  16.  (9904.16)
    alas... i've now just realised that the digital price will be the same price as the print price. This IMHO completely now fucks the whole point of the having digital in the first place....

    Bugger...
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      CommentAuthorJon Wake
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     (9904.17)
    @icelandbob

    It would also give new creators a launchpad to work with, without risking a whole line on an unknown property. Currently, a handful of writers write the vast majority of books. How many books a month does Bendis write? Geoff Johns? That makes big name writers into disproportionately big fish in a teeny tiny pond. But it's a business, and the big guys know that if they get to put 'written by Warren Ellis' then a certain number of people will show up. But a similar number of people will show up to Batman just because it's a guy in a blue cape with pointy ears. You can afford to have someone screw up a little with Batman, so long as you have a writing team that can train up the new kid.

    Now, I'm not sure how the artists would handle it. Those people are machines as is. I'd hate to drive comic artists to suicide. I guess you'd have a different artist for each week, or sometimes two or more artists on a book. (You illustrate plot 'a', you've got the b plot, you do the backup story art.)
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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2011
     (9904.18)
    Anyone remember Jason Bard? Anyone? I'll give you all a minute. Jason Bard.

    No?

    He was a lame detective (as in, "he had a bum leg and walked with a cane", not the usual DC definition of "lame") and he dated Barbara Gordon. As far as I know, he survivied the Crisis (the first one, the only one that really matters). He used to appear regularly in the Bat-Family books. Hell, he was practically the model for the Gotham Precinct stuff that has revitalized the Batman franchise (and never, ever forget that it is a franchise and must be treated as such.) and he dated Batgirl. While she could still walk.

    DC has always excelled at the anthology format and I approve of Jon Wake's plans.

    Too bad he's not running DC.
    • CommentAuthorAkiramich
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2011
     (9904.19)
    Since they just announced the cancellation of NORTHLANDERS my interest in any new DC titles has gone very very low.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBeamish
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2011
     (9904.20)
    I was pretty shocked when they said that Jeff Lemire is off Superboy, but when they announced he was on Animal Man and Frankenstein my anxiety calmed.

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